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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

School guidelines on gender identities/trans out this week

674 replies

ArabeIIaScott · 19/06/2023 10:36

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22733965/schools-banned-letting-pupils-change-gender-parents-rishi-sunak/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12208907/PM-says-children-not-allowed-switch-identities-schools-without-telling-parents.html

These are the only two articles I could find so far.

'Schools will be forced to tell parents if students are questioning their gender under new Government guidance to be published this week, according to a report. '

Schools to be banned from letting kids change gender if parents say no

SCHOOLS will be banned from letting kids change their gender if their parents say no, The Sun can reveal. And children who want to be called by another pronoun — he, she, they — will not be able to…

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/22733965/schools-banned-letting-pupils-change-gender-parents-rishi-sunak

OP posts:
Thread gallery
26
Helleofabore · 25/06/2023 10:43

biological essentialism : women do the dishes.

gender ideology : I do the dishes, therefore I must be considered a woman.

feminism: I was born a female and anyone can do the dishes!

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 25/06/2023 10:44

Helleofabore · 25/06/2023 10:43

biological essentialism : women do the dishes.

gender ideology : I do the dishes, therefore I must be considered a woman.

feminism: I was born a female and anyone can do the dishes!

🤣

very crisp definition, love it

Hepwo · 25/06/2023 10:52

It is like hoarding.

We are surrounded by the precarious piles of rules that are collecting everywhere and if we look at their piles of rules the wrong way or say anything about them, there's a meltdown.

Datun · 25/06/2023 11:06

FrancescaContini · 25/06/2023 09:41

I don’t know. It makes me feel a little despairing. It can be so ingrained. Once you become aware of how ingrained it is, you can’t return to a state of not being aware.

I believe that, yes. Maybe it's sociopathy. Misogyny. Or a disordered sex drive.

Or all three.

But it's being given a legitimacy that is profoundly worrying.

There have always been women haters, or men who view them as commodities, but the normalisation of that is what needs addressing.

See all the evidence here in the skirtgospinny vid.

Trigger warning. All the trigger warnings in fact. The lot.

https://twitter.com/Skirt_Go_Spinny/status/1666518433884676135

https://twitter.com/Skirt_Go_Spinny/status/1666518433884676135

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/06/2023 13:26

IcakethereforeIam · 25/06/2023 10:25

Thanks @thirdfiddle 😁 that's ridiculous. How could anyone spend 5 minutes on FWR and think that's what we believe!

Well, if someone is blotting out the acceptance of inconvenient information to the degree necessary to believe that body sex and the inequality of human reproduction is irrelevant to the different experiences and outcomes of men and women and that actually it's all down to a mysterious inner somethingness that simultaneously can't be measured or perceived by others but also requires special rights and mitigations to mitigate its social consequences while body sex, which everyone can perceive and react to, does not....

...once someone is performing the complex dance of filters, denial, projection and cognitive dissonance to do that, merely believing gender critical feminists to be saying the exact opposite of what they are saying is hardly even a blip on the fail scale.

FrancescaContini · 25/06/2023 22:44

@Datun
Thank you for linking to the video. I could only stomach five minutes of it especially after one man said something along the lines of “treat me like a lady - choke me”. 😠🤬

Thelnebriati · 25/06/2023 23:16

Sorry I don't have a share token for this, but it has been archived;

''Tory MP demands Government pass ‘sex education transparency’ law''
Miriam Cates accuses schools of ‘hiding materials from parents’ as education expert says law change will ‘reassure families’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/25/sex-education-lessons-schools-children-miriam-cates/

Tory MP demands Government pass ‘sex education transparency’ law

Miriam Cates accuses schools of ‘hiding materials from parents’ as education expert says law change will ‘reassure families’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/25/sex-education-lessons-schools-children-miriam-cates

Datun · 26/06/2023 00:44

FrancescaContini · 25/06/2023 22:44

@Datun
Thank you for linking to the video. I could only stomach five minutes of it especially after one man said something along the lines of “treat me like a lady - choke me”. 😠🤬

Yes, there's a lot of that sort of shite. So much so that you'd be forgiven for thinking every man in the planet thinks it.

Which is kind of the point. There are sooo many and it is they who are driving the issue. They all want in.

It's no good people saying that these aren't 'real' trans people either. These are the people we're talking about.

It should be required viewing for every MP, teacher, doctor and police officer. Many of whom, I suspect, have a very rosy and entirely mythical view of the cohort in question.

Signalbox · 26/06/2023 07:04

Helleofabore · 25/06/2023 10:43

biological essentialism : women do the dishes.

gender ideology : I do the dishes, therefore I must be considered a woman.

feminism: I was born a female and anyone can do the dishes!

Hmm I think doing the dishes might be a bad example here. I bet your average TW doesn’t use doing boring domestic chores as a means to validate his identity.

NotBadConsidering · 26/06/2023 07:46

Maybe more TW should do the the dishes to help, because you know that 🎵hands that do dishes can feel as soft as your face with mild green Fairy Liquid 🎵

FrancescaContini · 26/06/2023 08:43

Good idea, because of course, to be truly female, soft hands are a must.

Helleofabore · 26/06/2023 09:08

I don’t know. Are soft feminine hands in the constellation? Because my hands are pretty bony, large and not soft at all. Often covered in scratches from heavy duty gardening, and plaster or paint from doing stuff on the house. And everyone knows that plaster and paint is shit for skin.

JanesLittleGirl · 26/06/2023 09:39

Would that be before or after they've shaved their faces?

ButterflyHatched · 26/06/2023 13:43

Glad we have a crack team of psychologists on the case to uncover the root of this evil mean trans sociopath's issues. If only they'd been on the case a quarter of a century ago, we could have been spared this evil being unleashed upon the world.

By all means, please do continue with the transphobic quips and dog-whistles. They really strengthen the case that the people who claim to be desperately concerned about the wellbeing of vulnerable children are guided by benevolent and legitimate concerns, rather than their own raging prejudices.

To think that people wonder why trans kids are scared of talking to their parents. When you tell them what you are, they listen.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/06/2023 13:59

Datun · 25/06/2023 11:06

I believe that, yes. Maybe it's sociopathy. Misogyny. Or a disordered sex drive.

Or all three.

But it's being given a legitimacy that is profoundly worrying.

There have always been women haters, or men who view them as commodities, but the normalisation of that is what needs addressing.

See all the evidence here in the skirtgospinny vid.

Trigger warning. All the trigger warnings in fact. The lot.

https://twitter.com/Skirt_Go_Spinny/status/1666518433884676135

Heavens to murgatroyd

I’ve really got no problem with men doing all that stuff

it’s the ‘I’m doing it because I’m a woman / I’m a woman because I do it’ stuff that’s so bloody offensive

just be a man and enjoy wearing a bunch of makeup and pretending to be stupid

oh right, that wouldn’t get you off, would it?

Froodwithatowel · 26/06/2023 14:05

Because why would a woman care about child safety or the equality and access and inclusion of women?

The only reason they'd be difficult to men is because they're nasty women who are fixated on upsetting men.

Because anything going on in the head of a woman is obviously always all about a man.

Fgs. It's becoming like a parody.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 26/06/2023 14:08

Froodwithatowel · 26/06/2023 14:05

Because why would a woman care about child safety or the equality and access and inclusion of women?

The only reason they'd be difficult to men is because they're nasty women who are fixated on upsetting men.

Because anything going on in the head of a woman is obviously always all about a man.

Fgs. It's becoming like a parody.

Yup

literally the only reason for women to object to men in women’s single sex spaces and experimentation on children which leaves them sterile is because they’re nasty

nasty, nasty women

FrancescaContini · 26/06/2023 14:14

And because they like whistling at dogs

WomanXXWorldsOriginsofMothersofAllNations · 26/06/2023 14:28

“It's certainly been eye opening, though, and I imagine other people who read this thread will find it quite illustrative of the way that trans people are minimised, pathologised and demonised simply for speaking their personal truths when prompted.

this xy really spoke xys personal truth, and oh boy it’s something….

https://apple.news/AxyE24N8TQA-QfXkxApsgCQ

The headline

“After my gender transition, I learned being a woman could be terrifying”

I was hopeful that this xy got it….

“Men started catcalling me on the street, and while it was validating, it was also scary.”

”But after transitioning, I learned how difficult — and sometimes unsafe — it could be to be a woman in public.”

But then….

”After almost five years of my transitioning, some of it was validating — even exciting. I was feminine and desirable.”

Oooo so close..

“I'm thankful that the world perceives me as a woman. But the world in which we live is harsh to women. Our boundaries are frequently violated. Our wishes are disregarded.”

(Yes, I noted the forced teaming, and thinking rape culture was sexy, and just fuck women’s boundaries if it means xy gets a feel good)

And then the truth will out…. ffs

”Perhaps this is the greatest evidence of the soundness of gender transition: Many of us are willing to descend the social ladder to be seen as we truly are.

After my gender transition, I learned being a woman could be terrifying — Insider

I started my gender transition at 21, and eventually, people started to see me as a woman. Men started catcalling me on the street, and while it was validating, it was also scary. One night, a man followed me into a restaurant, and it was terrifying.

https://apple.news/AxyE24N8TQA-QfXkxApsgCQ

Helleofabore · 26/06/2023 14:44

”Glad we have a crack team of psychologists on the case to uncover the root of this evil mean trans sociopath's issues. If only they'd been on the case a quarter of a century ago, we could have been spared this evil being unleashed upon the world.”

eeerrr. No. We are discussing posting styles and what motivates the words that are posted.

And this entire website’s forum do that. People post, their posts are discussed and analysed. People who don’t want their posts discussed and analysed don’t post on Mumsnet. They post on a website that guarantees an echo chamber approach of only providing positive wonderfulness to the people they allow to post there.

By all means, please do continue with the transphobic quips and dog-whistles. They really strengthen the case that the people who claim to be desperately concerned about the wellbeing of vulnerable children are guided by benevolent and legitimate concerns, rather than their own raging prejudices.

Mate, you can talk about prejudices! You literally have told us that regardless of us telling your that we are not fucking biological essentialists and that it your own misunderstanding of the phrase and current feminist thought, you told us you will just continue to spread that lie.

Report any transphobia, otherwise you might be using your own low bar from transphobia to describe something you just don’t like to see discussed.

And really… of course we are fucking concerned when the predominant message being spread by lobby groups is misogynistic and down right negligent for our children to be taught or treated in the way they are now. That you cannot recognise this is also what we are discussing. Why should any person reading this thread but any credibility into your posts when you post about males and their needs? Based on your experience which doesn’t resemble many of the children and teens seeking transition. In fact, that you are male shows your experience doesn’t reflect the majority of teens transitioners now.

Why do you think anyone reading this thread and seeing your male centred posts think you contribution is balanced and should be considered? You don’t even seem to be up to date on the studies and the guidance.

And yet you seem to infer that YOU are “desperately concerned about the wellbeing of vulnerable children are guided by benevolent and legitimate concerns”.

When you advocate for extreme treatments.

But here you are telling us all yet again what nasty nasty women we are. How our concerns are fake and not legitimate and that we don’t understand our own children.

Every single post is eye popping in how it has to centre you. You cannot even see it, but all the readers can by now.

Froodwithatowel · 26/06/2023 15:09

If your personal truth is 'I want to use women's spaces but I don't want to hear anyone else's personal truths about the impact on them and how this doesn't work for them and the harms I'm doing them'

you are probably going to be disappointed.

Smears, guilting, lies, name calling and every other coercive attempt to get those women to shut up and enable you? Isn't going to do much really, other than illustrate your inability to see anyone's needs but your own, and your misogyny in regarding women as with a biological duty of enablement to you that you don't owe anything to them for in return.

Which kind of makes a nonsense of pretending that anyone significantly transitions anywhere.

Helleofabore · 26/06/2023 15:48

Helleofabore · 26/06/2023 14:44

”Glad we have a crack team of psychologists on the case to uncover the root of this evil mean trans sociopath's issues. If only they'd been on the case a quarter of a century ago, we could have been spared this evil being unleashed upon the world.”

eeerrr. No. We are discussing posting styles and what motivates the words that are posted.

And this entire website’s forum do that. People post, their posts are discussed and analysed. People who don’t want their posts discussed and analysed don’t post on Mumsnet. They post on a website that guarantees an echo chamber approach of only providing positive wonderfulness to the people they allow to post there.

By all means, please do continue with the transphobic quips and dog-whistles. They really strengthen the case that the people who claim to be desperately concerned about the wellbeing of vulnerable children are guided by benevolent and legitimate concerns, rather than their own raging prejudices.

Mate, you can talk about prejudices! You literally have told us that regardless of us telling your that we are not fucking biological essentialists and that it your own misunderstanding of the phrase and current feminist thought, you told us you will just continue to spread that lie.

Report any transphobia, otherwise you might be using your own low bar from transphobia to describe something you just don’t like to see discussed.

And really… of course we are fucking concerned when the predominant message being spread by lobby groups is misogynistic and down right negligent for our children to be taught or treated in the way they are now. That you cannot recognise this is also what we are discussing. Why should any person reading this thread but any credibility into your posts when you post about males and their needs? Based on your experience which doesn’t resemble many of the children and teens seeking transition. In fact, that you are male shows your experience doesn’t reflect the majority of teens transitioners now.

Why do you think anyone reading this thread and seeing your male centred posts think you contribution is balanced and should be considered? You don’t even seem to be up to date on the studies and the guidance.

And yet you seem to infer that YOU are “desperately concerned about the wellbeing of vulnerable children are guided by benevolent and legitimate concerns”.

When you advocate for extreme treatments.

But here you are telling us all yet again what nasty nasty women we are. How our concerns are fake and not legitimate and that we don’t understand our own children.

Every single post is eye popping in how it has to centre you. You cannot even see it, but all the readers can by now.

Sorry for all the typos, I am not paying enough attention to s&g.

Helleofabore · 26/06/2023 16:04

Children and teens are scared also because heavily invested lobby groups and self identified influencers and ‘mentors’ tell them to be scared. The number of messages out there about ‘found families’ and ‘glitter families’ and just how many messages revolve around ‘no one understands like we do’ (we being support group or influencer/mentor). The fear spread by much of the messaging from these organisations when changes happen is very much about evoking fear.

If anyone thinks all that messaging is not feeding the fear in children and teens, they must be so deeply entrenched they cannot see any of the wider picture at all.

anyolddinosaur · 26/06/2023 17:37

Children with gender dysphoria should have the reasons for their dislike of their body explored. Where that is the result of a medical condition it should be treated. When it is the result of their parent(s)'s homophobia they should be supported not to internalise that homophobia. When it's because they dislike the sexist way society treats them they need adults explaining to them how it's possible to develop a life that isnt based on sexual stereotypes.

What children dont need is people who love and want to reinforce sexual stereotypes telling them there is anything wrong with their healthy bodies. They dont need people telling them that ruining their health is the only way or even the best way to deal with their problems.

@ButterflyHatched I'm sorry your parents didnt get your medical condition treated. I suspect that they were homophobic. I'm concerned that you are trying to encourage other young people to follow your path. You have been deprived of your fertility, you have never experienced a normal sex life, The hormones you take have unknown impact on your brain. You have many increased health risks, including the increased breast cancer risk. This is not a path to encourage anyone down - you are doing so only because you think it validates the decisions you took. It doesnt.

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