Post Westminster Hall Debate - what are the next steps to ensure the sex based rights of biological women

[IwantToRetire]

The other thread is now full https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4800027-debate-relating-to-the-definition-of-sex-in-the-equality-act-2010-will-be-in-westminster-hall-on-12-june-2023-430pm

And what it will achieve we will have to wait and see.

But is clarifying the EA the most important campaign to ensure women's sex based rights.

Or ...

The TM paperwork is in the post just in case..

TM paperwork? Is that my GRC?

I know Boris Johnson gave the impression that PMs are some sort of individual ruler, but they are in fact only as powerful as their MPs let them to be. ie the Tories let Boris behave badly because they thought he was their vote winner. And only got rid of him once he no longer seemed that.

So stop going on about Sunak. This is about whether we can get enough MPs to believe it really will be a vote winner in the GE.

So as said yesterday, we should be letting the MPs, even if they are male and Tory, who spoke up for clarifying the EA that they are appreciated and how it might change how you will vote at the GE.

But equally let Labour know, that their representatives at the meeting were a complete digrace (barring JP) and have confirmed that they wont have your vote at the GE.

Dont forget this was a Petition Debate ie prompt by ordinay voters, so good that it even happened. But there needs to be continued pressure on MPs now as they are no actively part of it by attending the debate.

But in terms of public representation our biggest problem is the media. They dont want to have this discussed other than in a shock jock way.

And although it is unlikely the best step forward would be for GC campaign groups to come together and lobby as an alliance. (I suspect pigs will fly before this happens sadly) Abortion rights were secured by a variety of groups agreeing to work together.

But only if MPs genuinely think it is a vote winner will they prioritise it.

And in view of the Bills being voted on in the HoC yesterday, having said what a pathetic turn out (about 50), quite something that they did prioritise this. (EU regs and Public Order Bills which I think most would assume their constituents would think more important than women so they were sticking their necks out.)

The Labour Party needs to watch what is happening is Spain. The right parties will repeal the trans law,while also repealing the voluntary euthanasia law and making it harder for women to get abortions, hence the number of Spoilt ballot papers this time. Women and feminists are angry about being put in this position and will continue to refuse to vote for politicians that are considered traitorous. Jess Phillips has changed her position, perhaps the others will. Shame she didn’t stand up for Rosie Duffield more when she needed support though.
Funny how something that so recently wasn’t supposed to be an important issue has turned into something that is in the news every day.

However the SNP were actually marginally worse.

Oh soz! Should have explained, it's for my tran'd mark (used to be trade but possibly renamed along with a bunch of other changes).

So as said yesterday, we should be letting the MPs, even if they are male and Tory, who spoke up for clarifying the EA that they are appreciated and how it might change how you will vote at the GE.

But equally let Labour know, that their representatives at the meeting were a complete digrace (barring JP) and have confirmed that they wont have your vote at the GE.

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Good idea. I have written before on this

It needs to fill their in box as much as other contentious issues

I know what you mean. Even the fact that we're supposed to believe in the concept of "trans people" is outrageous really.
OK there are people that would prefer to be the other sex, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore reality.

Meanwhile in the media we are getting this

MPs warned to use careful language to prevent trans people being targeted a press release from PA media that lots of papers are using.

And this in the Independent from Robin Moira Wright I was at the ‘sex and gender’ debate in parliament. What I saw both horrified and depressed me

Daily Mail goes for a sort of its all a bit of a farce The atmosphere was nervous, no one smiled and it wasn't long before tempers began to fray... HENRY DEEDES on a heated Parliamentary debate on rewriting the equality law

Interesting since Maya Forstater Personnel papers are covering the issue https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/mps-debate-changing-legal-definition-of-sex-under-the-equality-act/

Someone should have provided an alternative press release

It’s a battle and people need to be on it

Good idea. I have written before on this
It needs to fill their in box as much as other contentious issues

In an ideal world a national campaign would also mean holding local meetings to make sure people are aware of what the issues are.

But in the current climate even finding a room to hold a meeting to talk about women and biological sex, is a campaign in itself.

So the impression that some have tried to give that those suffering the most are trans people, in no way reflects the reality that women are being not just silenced, but having their right to freely associate restricted.

It would be ironic that the arguement used that we shouldn't rush any changes because of the unintended consequences from for instance the GRA, shows that trying to get women's issues to the top of the agenda is always stymied by Patriarchal practices.

Someone should have provided an alternative press release

Ideally yes, but also what a shame that women service providers couldn't at least have publicly applauded what Jess Philips said.

The silence of these groups is a real negative in terms of a national campaign.

They are still all terrified.

Why Jess Phillips specifically out of interest?

There we’re many pro women and girls speakers

To be fair to the women's sector, it wouldn't exactly be the worst thing to exercise caution where Jess Phillips is concerned. It's not that long ago, she included a trans-identified male on a list of female murder victims.

It's not beyond the realms of possibilities that she's opportunistic here.

Yep.

Why Jess Phillips specifically out of interest?

There we’re many pro women and girls speakers

Yes, and good ones. But the focus of her speech was specifically the provision of women's services such as refuges, from the perspective of someone who'd been peesonally involved with providing them. Several of the others mentioned them, but not as their main point.

the focus of her speech was specifically the provision of women's services such as refuges, from the perspective of someone who'd been peesonally involved with providing them. Several of the others mentioned them, but not as their main point.

As she pointed out, for far too long, almost from the start, funders have said that generic services are more economic and refuse to admit that there are on occassions instances when women only services are essential.

In fact almost from the start of funding for women's services (Ken Livingsstone/GLC) funders, usually local councils, usually male dominated, have tried to stop funding women only services.

I'll see if I can find the link, but a long standing Women's Aid refuge has just had their funding with drawn and it has gone to some conglomorate.

The lack of support for women's right to respect and dignity has caused more loss of women's services than the trans issue. Although now used by funders as a further nail in the coffin of the arguement for women only services.

Jess Phillips has changed her position, perhaps the others will. Shame she didn’t stand up for Rosie Duffield more when she needed support though.
Funny how something that so recently wasn’t supposed to be an important issue has turned into something that is in the news every day.

Has Jess Phillips worked out you can't erase comments recorded by Hansard?

It's a real shame that her colleagues has failed to recognise and respect her experience in the field of domestic violence shelters and instead prattled on in the way they did saying there was no problems...

So a women's group that has been providing refuge services to women for 20 years have lost their funding to a tender by a non specialist group called Fearless, who have sub contracted their "DV services" ie the refuge to what seems to be a housing assocaition (this was a trend started by Blair).

Although harsh, but if the service had gone to another women's service provider who had some sort of superior service, you might think okay. But to change it into a sub contracted service to be implemented by an HA!

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/doubts-over-long-term-future-040000541.html

I've just emerged from the rabbit hole (in the Alice in Wonderland sense) of Kirsty Blackman's Twitter. The comments below the most recent threads are pure gold, she's getting a pasting. She's an utter melt.

I trust Jess Philips as far as I can throw her and I am crap at throwing.

Remember, she added Brianna Ghey to the Counting Dead Women list when: a) the list was made up of women and girls murdered in 2022 and Ghey was killed in 2023; b) The case was still sub justice and no one has yet been convicted; and c) Ghey was 16 so was not - legally or in any other way - a woman or a girl.

The only person she cares about really is Jess Phillips and she will hoist her flag to whatever she thinks is most politically expedient.

I trust Jess Philips as far as I can throw her and I am crap at throwing.

Unfortunately given how little public support women get, we can not always get the women we prefer to speak for us.

And taken the debate as a whole it is evident that not enough briefing has gone into reminding MPs of the importance of women only services. If it had she wouldn't have been the only one. Or women's groups themselves could have been more public.

What's it go to do with trust.

This is about getting into the public domain the impact of the lack of respect / outright attack on the rationale for women only services.

I dont trust the Daily Mail but am happy to share articles when they are one of the few papers to report on women's sex based rights.

I have a real concern that the underlying motive of mumsnet it syphoning on FWR into sex and gender, is achieving its actual aim. To de-politicise the feminist context of this issue. Not to be aware of the longer trend of MRAs attacking women's services, and how that continues, and how the MRAs have been able to piggy back on the TRA agenda, is allowing not only mumsnet by the public perception that this is a side issue that a few fanatics want to go on about to the exclusion of women's issues as a whole.

I have always felt that was the reason for the split, and some seem to think that is the political reality. Women's issues and then an isolated single issue campaign about trans rights and self identity vs. biology without any political link to women's issues as a whole.

(As shown by those who say why is this thread on FWR because they have accept the mumsnet dictat that it is a fringe issue for a few fanatics.)

I mentioned up thread about how campaigning for abortion rights partly suceed because a number of groups agreed to work together, and wonder if groups working on women's sex based rights would ever do the same.

And by coincidence, but from very real and tragic circumstances, there will be a joint protest organised by a number of groups re abortion jailing. https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/time-to-act-tickets-646932551677

I don't trust Jess Phillips because she has demonstrated she is willing to exploit the platform she has been given to raise the profile of murdered women for political point scoring.

Please don't patronise me.