Post Westminster Hall Debate - what are the next steps to ensure the sex based rights of biological women

[IwantToRetire]

The other thread is now full https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4800027-debate-relating-to-the-definition-of-sex-in-the-equality-act-2010-will-be-in-westminster-hall-on-12-june-2023-430pm

And what it will achieve we will have to wait and see.

But is clarifying the EA the most important campaign to ensure women's sex based rights.

Or ...

I get the feeling Labour are testing the water with Jess. Dodds is probably more closely aligned to the actual incoherent official position.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2023-06-12/debates/F74BD8CC-4807-46F4-AA51-5402B7CFE8F9/LegislativeDefinitionOfSex

Hansard is updated and despite denials kirsty did indeed say she suspected she had xy chromosomes

Thank you Demented Pixie. It is not illegal to use this term and in feminist circles (that I am in,) it is the preferred way of referring to MALES who ID as female... WE refuse to say that men who (often self) ID as women are such... That would be giving up our identity.

I feel somewhat deflated and disappointed after that; some excellent arguments from supporters of reality but from the waffle of woman in purple top at the end it seems it will lead no-where.

No need to apologise for stating your opinion HD...

Firstly massive cheers for the women who briefed and wrote to MPs and the excellent presentations today from pro women MPs
secondly write to the MPs who made great points to tell them so and say women want to vote for MPs who stand up for their rights

Sorry cross post!

Problem is, it's impossible to write to MPs other than your own consituency one.

Hansard is fabulous for its ability to record illogical reasoning too; plenty of drs and scientists can absolutely provide a definition.

Twitter has picked up on the fact that the genderists relied completely on tone policing rather than hard facts.

I watched the second half live and have just gone back to the beginning. I thought it was absolutely brilliant and am buzzing from it.

Jess Phillips is back in my good books.

The 'other side' just had wishy washy arguments (if you can even call them that) and was all about the emotional blackmail. The GC side did fantastically well and used calm, precise language.

I'm buzzing for the first time in a LONG time. Hurrah

Is Kirsty Blackman just being monumentally dim by saying she's got no idea what her chromosomes are and that she'd guess XY? Because she is mistakenly thinking that women have XY chromosomes and men have XX?

She must surely know that as she has been pregnant multiple times, that she has XX chromosomes!

RF, whilst I agree that 'in most cases' one is only supposed to write to ones local MP, there are cases where you can still write to others. Whether they choose to reply or not is their choice. (I wrote to Penny Mordaunt recently about an issue I needed support with and although I no longer live in the area, she did reply and took onboard my request. Although it could have been a bit of eyewash? But it is an issue that affects 1,000 of us and she knows we have a national campaign on the go so seemed to interact.) If you don't try and all that.

Whoever said she's wearing her outer space space nighty, thanks for that chuckle.

Let's hope next time she wears some banana pajamas.

Thirdly (apologies, I’m just recycling a post I made a few days ago from the ‘Fears Sunak will renege on EqA’ thread) but it’s been a long day:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4820718-fears-rishi-sunak-will-renege-on-promise-to-clarify-definition-of-biological-sex?page=10&reply=126829829

It’s massively disappointing to presume Sunak will renege given how badly we need this change and after all the good work that’s gone into this from Sex Matters and others. But I think it’s only realistic. I didn’t expect it to happen because they hadn’t made any moves to make it happen in 13 years but absolutely it is/was worth trying because that raises the profile of the key issues and builds campaigning relationships.

However, given that clarification of the EqA was only ever a damage limitation exercise without being accompanied by the repeal of GRA, and given that we’re about to have a huge clear out in the House of commons anyway with loads of MPs standing down*, plus a likely shake up of the composition of the Commons after 13 years after the 2024 GE, then women going along with getting what we can expediently get, (because the Tories have an 80 person working majority right now), just isn’t serving us any more. That ship was torpedoed by Johnson and Dorries last night.

So I hope Posie is drawing up her byelection plans because that would be a fabulous way to raise profile on these issues.

And I hope we can all start afresh taking into account everything learned so far with the EqA reform campaign. I hope that women’s groups can build on their amazing work so far, and can coalesce in a sustained way over the next few years around a longer term goal of

1. review the 2010 Equality Act to see how GRA repeal would affect people with GRCs and then making provision for them to be treated fairly accordingly
2. repeal GRA for whole of UK

*this is a weekly updated log of how many MPs have said they will stand down before next election: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9808/

There's an editing war currently going on on Kirsty Blackman's wiki page. The Hansard reference made me laugh quite a lot

Eh? Of course it's not. I send MPs cards and letters regularly. They don't have to answer.

Noting Caroline Nokes didn't show up at all.

It's being edited by a Japanese anime character.

It just gets funnier.

The definition of sex doesn't need to be something everyone agrees with or understands. It simply is what it is regardless of what you feel like and in spite of your own ignorance. It is imprinted on every cell in your body.
I might believe sex does not matter just like I might believe the world is flat, but that's not reality.
What about people with limited mental capacities who can't decide for themselves what they identify as and their preferred pronouns?

Not sure being scientific means diddly squat. Most doctors support this bullshit and god knows they have covered enough biology to know better...

RealityFan I think it’s good to write to any MP and copy in any MP on issues of principle and conscience like this because they all need to think about it and because no party has yet reached critical mass of saying they’ll do something about it, so the more the merrier.

MPs don’t have to reply if you’re not their constituent, but that said even your own MP isn’t obliged to write back to you on every issue even if you are their constituent, so don’t let that put you off.

It is a courtesy to make it clear whose constituent you are (and also recommend copying your own MP in to the message, so that they know your future vote directly affecting them, might be at stake..)

I emailed Rosie Duffield to offer my support after Brighton's most ignoble mauled her, but I was bounced back.

If you think you "have a fair idea" about how other people's genitals look, then perhaps you do understand biological sex after all, Kirsty? Why pretend?

Right now I'm in the process of formulating my thoughts as to how I'm going to vote in 2024.

Despite most Tories coming thru in the debate earlier, and most of the Opposition being a pathetic shower (Jess Phillips and Joanna Cherry as honourable exceptions), all I see is the Tory party somehow unable or more likely unwilling to do the right thing here.

I have my theories as to this ideological capture, but that's irrelevant right now.

It seems Sunak will not do the right thing ahead of 2024, and with Labour and the others equally frozen, I'm going to either abstain or give my X to the most GC independent in my area.

This actually makes me pigsick, I really believe in voting. But I don't believe in it enough to sell my soul.