Are trans people really facing genocide?

[CremeEggsForBreakfast]

I follow a trans creator on social media. This person is not particularly well-known but I follow them so I'm not in an echo chamber and so I can better understand the opposite point of view.

This person, and others they follow, have been posting about how trans people are facing "a genocide". With new laws on sexual battery being proposed/passed in some states and the attempts to classify "gender reassignment surgery" as sexual harm it seems many trans people now believe this is part of a wider plot not to, you know, safeguard young children but to actually legally murder trans people.

The content I have seen is trans people saying they are facing Stage Eight of a genocide which would be akin to concentration camps.

The laws do seem pretty radical (death penalty, outlawing of drag) but AIBU to think that calling it genocide is hyperbolic? And that given the meaning of the word, genocide can only be committed against racial and ethnic groups?

I'm willing to have my mind changed. I can believe that sex is immutable and still not want trans people to face the death penalty but I find the equating to the national persecution of Jewish people during the Holocaust quite disturbing.

Some of their mothers asked them to clean their rooms, which is genocide.

Loved that book from the long ago days of reading stories to my two.

I definitely think Hanson were cruelly underrated and Mmm Bop should be regarded as a classic

does that help?

there are so many questions about Nathan’s case - none of which reflect well on the medical profession.

Nathan came from an openly abusive, misogynistic family. Unrepentantly so. That this abuse led to Nathan feeling that the only way to be valuable could be being a boy is so obvious it’s visible from
space.

What on earth was any medical professional doing treating that with medical and surgical transition? Then, when it obviously didn’t solve the problem (and probably made many things worse) using assisted dying provision to end Nathan’s life.

That is egregious medical malpractice. Absolutely shocking.

No they’re not, at least not in ‘civilised’ countries (who can say about others). Sounds like propaganda. I doubt any sensible person will believe that. Phasing out the mindset of thinking you’re trans will probably happen (organically) as it’s a fad really.

No they are not and to suggest they are is offensive to those who are/were

Our differences notwithstanding, I hope you're okay, it sounds like you have a lot going on.

The argument is that they are linked. Florida is proposing or has introduced (I'm unsure) a bill on Capital Sexual Battery in which causing harm to sexual organs of someone under 12 can incur the death penalty with a smaller number or jurors voting. Trans people, rightly or wrongly, believe those seeking gender reassignment surgery for their children could be at risk from this bill (or would be in the future).

Which is an upfront admission that they believe children's genitalia is harmed by trans ideology. Not that I think that's what the law applies to, but it's a bit of a foot shooting thing to admit. Yet again.

This is linked to another bill that seeks to ban and/or censor drag shows with drag being defined as " a drag performer as someone performing while using dress, makeup and mannerisms associated with a gender other than the one assigned to them at birth" (Guardian quote). This definition means all trans people are just drag performers and therefore cannot be within a certain radius of a school, can only be in adult entertainment venues etc.

I'm sure it's not about being within a certain radius of a school. Drag queens are allowed to walk down the street. But they're not allowed to perform to children. Perfectly normal. If tw want to differentiate themselves from drag queens, then they can find a way of doing it. Good luck with that, and they can blame Stonewall if it's simply not possible.

Frankly, I say let them bang on. Let everyone see the desperate, emotional blackmail being employed to further gruesome surgery on children, and adult sex shows for kids.

Circling back to this: in particular examining this statement-
''In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts [listed in the quote upthread] committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group''

Is trans ideology -
A national group?
An ethnical group?
A racial group?
A religious group?

That pretty much answers the thread.

Mad hyperbole with no discernable link to actual reality.

Plus a sneer that anyone who does not agree (and is not part of the club) is the enemy.

And then running away quick before anyone says anything that can enter their brain and disturb the contents in any way.

It's ok. The government have finally realised that this is a group who need great care, part of which is accepting that hyperbole, exaggeration, odd appropriation of things and perceiving 'no' as a reason to lose all grip is a key feature. As is the absolute inability to understand things from anyone else's point of view, or ever accept anyone else's needs or interests matter.

Caring and meeting needs no longer means unconditional getting of own way.

An casual friend/acquaintance of mine who was a TW died suddenly aged 40 from a massive stroke.
The post mortem recorded the sex as male. I think this is still the legal position.
The cause of death was stroke caused by the use of cross sex hormones.
I imagine that as time goes on, more deaths are likely to be as a result of medical intervention than murder, or lack of availability of "trans health care".
I think there has been a death of an 18 year old this week from complications of "gender affirming surgery".

tbh i'd be ok if they recorded it as sex male, gender woman. I don't think TRAs like that compromise though.

There is a way forward here, there always is. But there are occasions in life were two competing wants/needs/desires conflict, and it would be better to work out where compromise was necessary and where there should be lines in the sand.

3rd spaces added to Sex and then Gender questions on forms would be a good start.

How convenient that you won't be sticking around to explain exactly how lives ate in danger.

Plop.

@HinCogNeetOh

Indeed. Trans people represent none of those options on the list.

Even if someone was murdered for being trans, it wouldn't make it genocide in the same way that a racist murder isn't genocide.

The tragic death of the 18 yo was reported in a paper in 2016.

https://t.co/BGF7Z7h0v2

Thank you. I just read about it this week.

If doctors are doing something, you would ideally hope that it's beneficial to the patient. Also it may impose long term medical costs on society so you may think that this needs to be justified.

On the other hand, where you are talking about adults, and the evidence is ambiguous or very limited, I have sympathy for letting adults make their own decisions. Sign a disclaimer. Get the doctor out of responsibility. I'm not even thinking of trans stuff here, but like some people may benefit from thyroid hormones or testosterone regardless of whether there is medical evidence to support it.

No they aren’t but 1 woman gets killed every 3 days by men. What is more ‘genocidal’ 🤔

The drag bill sounds utterly crazy and I agree it’s alarming (wouldn’t it ban any cross-dressing theatre performances? What about school performances if the kids play opposite sex characters? ) but it wouldn’t have been enacted without the weird insistence on bringing drag queens into schools to perform for children without the consent of the parents.t want

Why did the American left decide to die on Drag Queen Hill? A populist backlash was inevitable and What exactly is so fucking great about drag queens reading to children (and boys competing in girls’s sports and rapists in women’s shelters) that it’s worth the next presidency?

I’m not worried about “trans genocide.” The men who’ve been pushing this shit can and will just stop cosplaying if life ever gets tough for them. I am worried about the coming backlash though. There are signs that in the US at least it’s opening the gateway to authoritarian enforcement of gender roles. In the UK I don’t see that, but I see a possibility the trans movement will take the NHS with it.

“AIBU to think that calling it genocide is hyperbolic”

YADNBU

venting misplaced anger is something I think every human on Earth is guilty of doing at some stage. Admitting it's misplaced is a sign of maturity.

I think the questions arising from accommodating the desire of trans people that others treat them based on their gender identity rather than their sex need to be asked and answered. I think it remains perfectly reasonable for people to be 'yes...upto a point'

I think that sometimes sex matters. I am happy to discuss when where and how and how the needs of different people can be accommodated. It seems to me that the opposite of that - to assert sex never matters is quite an extreme position which is hard to justify.

I don't think we can make anyone happier or fix any of these issues by name calling and denying that problems exist.

I do welcome people here who don't think the exact things I think, everyone has there own stories and perspectives right?

What does it take to not be transphobic in your opinion...

If this is true it's actually deeply fucking offensive and trans supporters and allies should be calling their comrades out on spouting such nonsense

I know. I'm a horrible bigot and my hate speech is disgusting

I do apologise for swearing though

This

So you think it's ok to compare pushback against stripping away womens rights and protecting young kids from harm, genocide?

Really?

No. In fact, if genocide were a 'competition' (which it's not) women would be 'winning' as 2 of us are killed each week by intimate partners in the UK alone. 8 per week in the US. God only knows what it's like in other parts of the world.

I'd say the main problem the TRA community has is that no one takes their 'genocide' hysteria seriously anymore. So they're gonna have to ratchet up the hysteria even further now to keep getting attention. Problem is, where do you go from 'genocide'? Sponatneous combustion? Alian invasion? Nuclear vaporisation?

I look forward to seeing that the TRAs come up with next!