Are trans people really facing genocide?

[CremeEggsForBreakfast]

I follow a trans creator on social media. This person is not particularly well-known but I follow them so I'm not in an echo chamber and so I can better understand the opposite point of view.

This person, and others they follow, have been posting about how trans people are facing "a genocide". With new laws on sexual battery being proposed/passed in some states and the attempts to classify "gender reassignment surgery" as sexual harm it seems many trans people now believe this is part of a wider plot not to, you know, safeguard young children but to actually legally murder trans people.

The content I have seen is trans people saying they are facing Stage Eight of a genocide which would be akin to concentration camps.

The laws do seem pretty radical (death penalty, outlawing of drag) but AIBU to think that calling it genocide is hyperbolic? And that given the meaning of the word, genocide can only be committed against racial and ethnic groups?

I'm willing to have my mind changed. I can believe that sex is immutable and still not want trans people to face the death penalty but I find the equating to the national persecution of Jewish people during the Holocaust quite disturbing.

I think it would be less of a stretch to call them a religious group than it is to argue that they are experiencing genocide.

Right.

So if you think you're potentially affected by this in any way, you need to take a long hard look at yourself, right?

As long as you leave children's genitals alone, this doesn't concern you.

No.

To describe them as a religious group or to suggest that they are facing genocide is complete and utter nonsense.

It's absolute bollox. No one is sending any trans person to a concentration camp, no one is campaigning for mass extermination. If there are legislatures that wish to bring in the death penalty for rape of children, then while I don't agree with the death penalty, that still doesn't mean mass extermination is nye. Not unless they are saying that all of that group engage in child rape.
I've just read that a state in the USA wants to stop minors being given hormones or surgery and the hysteria from some about that is beyond belief. Not allowing children to permanently harm themselves seems to be a good move to me. But, no, that's going to cause self harm apparently.

Do people not think, ‘I haven’t actually read the particular law (or know very much about the context); maybe I should actually do that before forming an opinion on it, especially that it is ‘genocide’?

They are using the word "genocide" for clicks and attention. As far as i can see most trans women don't have surgery, maybe top surgery to increase their breast size. I don't know actual statistics though, but i would hope that they think really long and hard (especially if they've been taking puberty blockers) about "bottom" surgery. It does sound dangerous and painful.

I think many more trans men have their breasts removed, again not sure of actual statistics, but this seems more likely as it is seen as more straightforward. (erroneously i think but it's not my decision).
I am baffled by the claims i see on the internet about the numbers of young women having hysterectomies etc, because i know how hard it is for women who have had their children, or are sure they don't want them etc (not to mention severe endometriosis) to get this surgery.

Frankly, i'm not going to look because my opinion is that nobody under 18 (preferably 25 ish for me, due to brain maturity) should be getting any surgery. I am not sure about the long-term effects of oestrogen / testosterone as cross-sex hormones. I would hope nobody is taking those without a lot of independent medical advice.

So this is the genocide: i would be accused of trans genocide because i want to stop them having irreversible, potentially dangerous or fatal, surgeries. That means i want to eradicate trans people. That's not what i, and many who think like me, want. We want trans people to have good care, to have good advice based on solid evidence. We want them to be able to live their best lives, however they decide that is, and only turn to surgery when they are already far down the route of living in their acquired gender. I believe they cannot change sex. This is also seen as trans-eradication (which to the TRAs is the same as trans genocide)

It is complicated. Because many places don't collect data on sex AND gender ID we can't know how many trans people are being killed. Ironically, that should be comforting to them: that in death a trans woman would be counted as a woman.
(caveat: I don't want any women, men, anyone, to be murdered or killed). But if we are to keep track of how many trans women, or trans men, are murdered we must be allowed to keep good solid statistics on [biological] sex and gender ID if you want to add that. Keeping these details would also help to target the help and funding needed for trans people, to the right places.

I would say the belief that everyone has a magical gendered soul which usually but doesn't always match their genitals is quasi-religious.

Safe to say its not the women on here that are doing the pretending. In the main on this board we tend to be rather against people pretending to be something they aren't.

And trans lives are not in danger from feminists protecting women and children.The fragile egos of some may be a little hurt but their lives in the main are more in danger through the use of cross sex Hormones and unnecessary surgeries and from being told a untrue rhetoric of the world hates you and wants you dead.

All the shit that is causing trans people distress and putting their lives in danger is coming from their own side.

Personally I think it's total bollocks that we don't know how many trans people are being murdered. Even if the police and mainstream media just referred to them as either their sex or their preferred gender and didn't mention the fact that they were trans, I'd expect trans Twitter to be having a field day of it.

The problem with trying to find statistics about numbers of trans people (for funding, to see if they are committing suicide at alarming rates etc) is that the refusal of the TRAs and other organisations to record biological sex with a supplementary question (to be answered only if you want to record a gender that does not match your biological sex) about gender ID.

That way anyone who scoffs at the idea of gender ideology just checks the appropriate sex box and goes on to the next question. People who want to record a different gender to their sex, or to record that they identify with their biological sex as their gender ID can check that box and move on to the next question.

Then we will all know who we should be targeting suicide prevention measures at and where we should funnel funding etc etc.

it is odd that the Florida law has people up in arms - if you are performing genital mutilation in the name of GRS or affirmation surgery to any child of 12 you really deserve to be in jail (I'm not a supporter of the death penalty)

Absolutely vile of them to try and compare their situation to genocide.

Perhaps if they hadn't been so violent and aggressive about their cause in the first place then people wouldn't be rallying against it.

All the trans people I know are total drama llamas. They are overly sensitive and often paranoid.

Surely they mean gendercide or transgendercide not genocide?

There's an article from a transman about the difficulties they say they faced getting gender affirming care. Despite that they made it through alive, obviously. I suppose pieces like this are always going to be one sided, the people who did desist aren't going to be writing stuff quite like this (assuming they'd even be commissioned or published). There's a fair amount for the bingo card but at least it avoids mentioning genocide.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/26/trans-healthcare-conservative-republican-states-missouri

The thing is… the assumption there is that there should be a right to ‘gender affirming care’ and all the surgical intervention that goes with it.

But, actually, there needs to be evidence-based care in the best interests of patients. That might not be what TRAs are demanding.

What Bernard said.

Personally, I wish Bernard could sometimes be less sensible, because it would give me the chance to say 'Not now, Bernard'.

Trans lives are in danger.

Evidence, please.

Glinner retweeted this.

https://twitter.com/Bernard_Lane/status/1651106977697910784?s=20

It has a link to an article in The Scotman about suicide in transpeople including assisted death. The writer seem to think this is an argument in favour of the GRR. The story of Nathan is heartbreaking. I've linked the thread rather than the article because the posters make excellent points and rebuttals.

it is heartbreaking - which is why we need to know who they are, and where they are so they can access help.

There is a massive (i would say worldwide, but i think probably developed-nations-wide is more accurate) mental health crisis going on, and i know a lot of TRAs say being trans isn't a mental health issue, but i have seen nothing to persuade me that it isn't. So mental health services need to be increased and improved and people who need help should get it.

Trans-identifying people and their allies campaign for teams-identifying children to be sterilised. 🤔 who exactly is trying to destroy this group?

Toddler and teen tantrums.

the first paragraph of that Scotsman article has my teeth on edge already

the proposed Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill. In Belgium, assisted dying is provided for people with gender dysphoria. You can be euthanised for being trans.

(my italics)
it is simply not true. To be "euthanised" as they put it isn't how it works in countries that have this facility (the Netherlands and Belgium spring to mind) because you have to apply for it. You aren't picked out of a line up by a screeching harpy with "kill the trans" and doctors rush in and do it.

You can have a thoroughly miserable life, diagnosed with depression or other mental or physical illness and a panel of doctors can say "yes this person has requested it and it is reasonable for us to acquiesce to their request" or "nope, the criteria haven't been met".

But there are NO death squads going round killing trans people.
(Nathan's story is tragic though, absolutely no doubt. His family are appalling fuckers)

Deffo