Are trans people really facing genocide?

[CremeEggsForBreakfast]

I follow a trans creator on social media. This person is not particularly well-known but I follow them so I'm not in an echo chamber and so I can better understand the opposite point of view.

This person, and others they follow, have been posting about how trans people are facing "a genocide". With new laws on sexual battery being proposed/passed in some states and the attempts to classify "gender reassignment surgery" as sexual harm it seems many trans people now believe this is part of a wider plot not to, you know, safeguard young children but to actually legally murder trans people.

The content I have seen is trans people saying they are facing Stage Eight of a genocide which would be akin to concentration camps.

The laws do seem pretty radical (death penalty, outlawing of drag) but AIBU to think that calling it genocide is hyperbolic? And that given the meaning of the word, genocide can only be committed against racial and ethnic groups?

I'm willing to have my mind changed. I can believe that sex is immutable and still not want trans people to face the death penalty but I find the equating to the national persecution of Jewish people during the Holocaust quite disturbing.

TRAs comparing any of this to the holocaust are beyond offensive. Really.

It beggars belief that this rhetoric goes unchallenged. Even perpetuated by people who should know better.

Another plopper, then. Utter waste of time posting hyperbole like this with no supporting evidence or arguments and then flouncing because you think other posters might have the temerity to disagree.

Are they not making a case for 3 as well? In terms of what some US states are proposing or putting into legislation?

How are they defining physical destruction then?

I think we are supposed to prevent that suicide is the same as murder. Or something.

That’s why the ‘from whom?’ question matters so much.

The claims about laws imposing death penalties are clearly nothing to do with anything going on in the UK or Europe. These activists make huge sweeping claims that are largely irrelevant. And then get upset at ‘bigots’ who ask inconvenient questions like ‘exactly what is this law, and where does it apply?’.

Just seen it described as a 'pretendicide' on Twitter which is right on the money imo.

Telling trans and other vulnerable people (in terms of mental health, susceptibility to manipulation, confusion, youth etc.) that people are actively coming to get them is reprehensible. Frightening people to keep them compliant and adherent to the cult is disgusting.

I don't wish any harm on any trans person. It's the TRAs thatchampion things that DO harm trans people, from dangerous medical interventions to stoking groundless panic.

I assume they’re referring to eg Tennessee’s ban on “gender affirming” healthcare, in that without access to puberty blockers and hormones there will be no transitioning.

Not saying I agree or that it’s not a stretch, but I think this is what some of them are getting at.

They’re claiming 5 too. ‘Conversion therapy’ and all that.

They’re not keen on actual evidence though. Nor about the problems with using what evidence exists of LGB conversion therapy practice as if it straightforwardly translates to T+. Raising any questions in that regard is ‘transphobic’ and must be silenced.

How is anyone's life in danger from knowing what sex they actually are?

The argument is that they are linked. Florida is proposing or has introduced (I'm unsure) a bill on Capital Sexual Battery in which causing harm to sexual organs of someone under 12 can incur the death penalty with a smaller number or jurors voting. Trans people, rightly or wrongly, believe those seeking gender reassignment surgery for their children could be at risk from this bill (or would be in the future).

This is linked to another bill that seeks to ban and/or censor drag shows with drag being defined as " a drag performer as someone performing while using dress, makeup and mannerisms associated with a gender other than the one assigned to them at birth" (Guardian quote). This definition means all trans people are just drag performers and therefore cannot be within a certain radius of a school, can only be in adult entertainment venues etc.

Maybe not linked in terms of consequences but in the sense that they are being proposed etc at the same time and both viewed as restricting the rights of trans people to be their authentic selves (not my view but the view being expressed by those I see on SM).

Their argument seems to be that that removing the right to self ID into the opposite sex class, to acquire all the rights of that sex class, is an act of genocide.

I think trans activists should realise that by their standards, trans activism can be interpreted as genocide against women;
''Destroying the meaning of 'woman' as a distinct sex class, destroying feminist culture is an act of cultural genocide.''
''Destroying the meaning of 'lesbian' as women who are same sex attracted, destroying lesbian culture is an act of cultural genocide.''

See how that works?

It's utter nonsense OP.

What's happening now is that governments and the medical establishment are finally waking up to the fact that potentially harmful medical interventions, such as puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and so-called 'gender reassignment' surgeries have been being provided to thousands of children without licence, scrutiny, appropriate scientific rigour or oversight and that there is consequently a massive potential for harm.

In addition to this harm, there is also the potential for huge lawsuits against doctors and the medical establishment, including the NHS and other national health services, who have been providing these drugs and surgeries without there being rigorously tested medical protocol behind them. In other words, these treatments have been performed on children who have been nothing more than unwitting guinea pigs in the name of tolerance, kindness and acceptance. So if any 'genocide' has been perpetrated, it's by the doctors providing this 'care' and not by the legislators now scrambling to make these unethical practices illegal.

Due to the aggression of pro-trans activists determined to shut down any kind of debate on these issues, and the personal attacks, rape and death threats that whistle-blowers have had to endure, it's taken far longer than it should have for sunlight to be shed on the issues and for legislators to act.

And what about article 4 of that list?

They're calling for their own sterilization. Or rather, they're calling for the sterilization of other people (usually younger people) to justify their own choices.

Nailed it.

Diane?

No, trans people aren't facing genocide in any single respect. It's classic hyperbole, not backed up by any facts. This playbook is central to trans activism.

People knowing what sex you are =/= genocide

legislating against performing experimental medical procedures with no evidence of positive outcomes on children =/= genocide

being told you can’t have all women’s things =/= genocide

so I’m going to say that’s a resounding No

@slamfightbrightlight

Are they not making a case for 3 as well?

Physical destruction would beed to again be unreasonably stretched to apply to this issue. Cultural destruction, perhaps, but physical destruction means to break something apart (in a literal sense, of an object in the real world).

It is another symptom of the trend for words to lose meaning that they can be twisted in this way.

@CremeEggsForBreakfast but that's not what the Florida death penalty is about, and they are deliberately misinterpreting it to somehow link it to trans issues.

The Florida bill allows the death penalty for people who commit sexual batteries on children under age 12. The jury must still unanimously find that there is at least 1 aggravating factor and at least 8 of the jurors must vote for the death penalty.

Personally I don't agree with the death penalty at all, but it is not possible to say that the above changes could be applied to Sex Reassignment Surgery in Trans Identified children.

I don't agree with the death penalty under any circumstances, but surely the only people at risk from this new law are those practising female genital mutilation?

Are any trans people anywhere actually having genital surgery before the age of 12? Because if they are, then yeah their parents and doctors clearly should be locked up and the key thrown away.

Ugh, it just gets layered with odiousness doesn't it?

Pretending that it's the same as Ukrainian children being kidnapped and kept in Russia.

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Is it worth even pointing out that trans people do not constitute a national, ethnical, racial or religious group?

Aye, save yourself, pet. Lest the flaming vipers enact some actual tutting at your ridiculous hyperbole.

I don't agree with the death penalty under any circumstances, but surely the only people at risk from this new law are those practising female genital mutilation?

I haven't read the law but assumed it also covers adults who abuse children and cause catastrophic, life changing genital injuries.

'Love is like a grain of sand
Slowly slippin' through your hand'