Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Changedmymindtoday · 12/04/2023 09:44

Oh do fuck off Daniel.

Datun · 12/04/2023 09:45

Louiseandsophie · 12/04/2023 09:35

Why, 'Born a certain sex' means exactly the same as 'Born a certain gender' does it not? Born a boy biologically, born a girl biologically, biology determines a girl or boy... The sex I was born is female, I am of the female sex. Enough?

Show quote history

No, and words keep being mangled anyway.

For a long time gender and sex were ised interchangeably, because people felt a little hesitant to constantly say sex, as it felt rather blunt.

But in terms of sociology gender actually means the roles society expects to be carried out by men and women, and it goes out of its way to impose them. Women are feminine, do the housework, are ornamental, etc. And men are strong, logical, rational and good at leadership. And anything outside that is discouraged. Strong women in leadership are called ball breakers or bitches, etc.

Which is why so many feminists are 'gender critical'.

Transactivists will claim that because they feel like inhabiting those gender stereotypes, it must mean they are really the opposite sex, and that is their 'gender' - a sort of inner essence that means they're not the sex they are.

But again, it's based on reinforcing those gender stereotypes. Hence the clash with feminists.

MassiveWordSalad · 12/04/2023 09:46

What's Radcliffe's deal? The way he speaks around trans issues makes me think he's got skin in the game, like so many celebs who have trans family. Is it just that he feels that he's got some sort of responsibility to redress what he sees as an imbalance created by JKR, because he IS Harry Potter, and he needs to prove to all Potterheads that Harry is kind and inclusive? He doesn't seem like the brightest lad.

The way he's going I could actually see him raising his child as "non-binary", giving them a gender-neutral name and "letting them decide for themselves" and so on.

RinklyRomaine · 12/04/2023 09:46

I'm afraid I don't believe any 11yo uses the phrase 'out of the cradle that I was a boy'. He has been groomed, coached, trained in what to say. From god knows what age. Why the ever living Radcliffe thinks championing this is somehow progressive just amazes me.

ReadersD1gest · 12/04/2023 09:46

FrancescaContini · 12/04/2023 08:14

I’m guessing Daniel doesn’t have children or much contact with children in general because if he did, he’d be very aware that 11 year olds are very fickle and prone to changing their minds on a whim. So whilst this fickleness is simply very annoying for the parents (who fork out 50 quid for uniform) if the child wants to go to Scouts or Guides then after a couple of weeks decides it’s not for them, it becomes far more serious if an 11 year old wants to change sex 😵‍💫 and embarks on PBs.

Daniel doesn’t seem to understand that children don’t have the same cognitive abilities as adults.

Maybe because Daniel isn't large on the old cognitive abilities front himself? He sounds thicker with every foray he makes into these issues.
You'd have to wonder why he's so invested.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 12/04/2023 09:49

Louisesndsophie

Where do you draw the line though? When your child insists the world use their new name? When your child wants puberty blockers? Cross sex hormones? To remove parts of their body to dress this lie up?

FGS we aren't talking about a little boy wanting to dress up as a mermaid for the day Confused

But yes, Daniel Radcliffe is an utter bellend.

catscatscurrantscurrants · 12/04/2023 09:49

I preferred my older brother's Action Man to Sindy. (Action Man had a dog. And a spacesuit! The dog had a spacesuit!) And I wanted my brother's motorbike from being 12 years old. According to Daniel Radcliffe and his ilk, I'd have been trans. Unsurprisingly, I am not. He is a dangerous fool.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 12/04/2023 09:50

CuriouslyDifferent · 12/04/2023 08:35

Ive kinda met him…I’d describe him as not a very people person - awkward, shy, not great around strangers…. He is very much a champion for young peoples causes, but as a figurehead…. at least that was true when I met him about 5 years ago.

However, had I met him more recently, i would have shared with him the issues that ‘trans’ is but a symptom of. I know first hand that it’s a warning sign of a young person in a mental health crisis, in a downward spiral that can lead to suicide. I supported my child in her choices (glad that she wasn’t asking for blockers or hinders yet) but it served no purpose for her unhappiness or attempts to find a place for herself. It only served to provide a barrier for support from those she loved. 3 suicide attempts later, counselling, and the distancing of an activist teacher at her school, she finally became a different person, returned to being female. we accepted her new name she chose, just thanking god she got through it all intact.

what I’d say to anyone who supports trans in teenagers - you’re being naive and mis diagnosing most children in need - denying them help. Do you give an alcoholic more alcohol, a gambler more money, a druggie more more drugs. No you help. Reinforcing trans in 99.9% of kids - is child neglect or worse abuse.

i say this as a parent who supported their trans kid. And nearly lost them.

Hope you're all healing curiously Flowers

thebellagio · 12/04/2023 09:52

it frustrates me because I genuinely like DR. But on this issue, it's so baffling.

I admit, I don't know a huge amount about trans ideology but to me it screams of adhering to stereotypes. I like football and superheros = boys, I like princesses and flowers = girls

I've always tried to tell my 8yo that toys are for everyone, and that girls can like blue/boys can like pink. If she's seen a picture or someone on tv of a man in a skirt/dress, I do tell her that its absolutely normal and anyone can wear anything they want. When she was 2, she was obsessed with fireman sam and trucks. It genuinely scares me that some people would have taken that to mean that she should have been trans. Now, she loves barbies and princesses, but she also loves playing for her football team and dinosaurs. I'm so proud of the fact that shes always been comfortable in her own skin and knows her own mind.

Surely if the trans advocates wanted to make a positive difference in the world, they should be focusing on breaking down barriers to stereotypes to say that anyone could like anything they want, people would feel a lot more comfortable in their own skin. Instead, the whole thing seems to be about reinforcing these dangerous stereotypes

I always think of Sam Smith and Harry Styles. You could say they have had similar career protectories so could be compared easily.

Sam Smith now claims to be non-binary and says they feel like a man some days, and a woman on other days. Whereas Harry Styles is basically, "sometimes I feel comfortable in a dress, other times I feel happier in trousers..." I'm pretty sure of the two of them I know who's a lot happier and more comfortable in their own skin.

JustDudeIt · 12/04/2023 09:54

He’s not the sharpest tool

AmuseBish · 12/04/2023 09:55

sex = male or female (this is biological)

gender = the expectations and assumptions placed on you by society, based on your perceived sex and the cultural and societal beliefs relating to sex roles (this can't be biological)

gender identity = for some, a feeling that the gendered expectations for either sex, as understood by the individual, fit your personality.

As I understand it, anyway.

Pocodaku · 12/04/2023 09:56

The TRA movement just proves itself more and more regressive and all into gender stereotypes. Rather than saying we are two sex classes of humans, and those bio differences are significant in medical and other contexts. However, there are a wide range of personalities/talents/inclinations within each of those sex classes.

Clymene · 12/04/2023 09:59

Why is an adult man with no training hanging out with a bunch of young teenagers and making pronouncements about parenting?
I know 3 teenager girls who have changed their mind about their identity and have gone back to their old names and pronouns so no, they don't know who they are.

And I'm afraid I simply don't believe that a bunch of middle class kids (because they always are) have been brought up in the rigidly stereotyped ways they always describe.

Slothtoes · 12/04/2023 09:59

In Radcliffe’s reported pronouncements on those he thinks are speaking ‘not in good faith’, Radcliffe, a young and wildly over-privileged man who is not a parent, says: ‘'I think a lot of the time it's just because people don't know a young trans person so there's just this theoretical idea about this in their head.'’

  1. loads of parents living every day with children showing a lot of distress (which happens to focus on gender identity) would still hugely disagree with Radcliffes gibly sexist, homophobic pronouncements in support of transitioning children

  2. Nobody has to ‘know’ a distressed child to believe that safeguarding ALL children is essential

Ourladycheesusedatum · 12/04/2023 09:59

Louiseandsophie · 12/04/2023 09:27

I mean biological gender.

Show quote history

This is why mangling words is not helpful

I think you mean sex? Say sex. Gender is nothing to do with sex. So that's why we are confused.

MacmillanMO · 12/04/2023 10:00

Animalsoffartingwood · 12/04/2023 08:01

I like blue. Off to fashion myself a penis out of any offal I find lying about.

😂🤣😂

OldCrone · 12/04/2023 10:01

Louiseandsophie · 12/04/2023 09:42

Yes, when a midwife tells you the gender of your baby, the sex of your baby... Used to be as simple as that.. born a boy, might grow up to feel you were born in the wrong body, now you can change sex, change gender... But you're born what you're born. I just want people to be happy jeez.

Show quote history

now you can change sex

??????????

You can't change sex. Surely you know this?

FrancescaContini · 12/04/2023 10:02

“I learned out of the cradle that I was a boy” 😂
Yes, this is how 11-year-olds speak.

Pearfacebananapoop · 12/04/2023 10:03

Why has he even got skin in the game? Is he a girl and we don't know it? Why the interest?

Ourladycheesusedatum · 12/04/2023 10:04

Louiseandsophie · 12/04/2023 09:42

Yes, when a midwife tells you the gender of your baby, the sex of your baby... Used to be as simple as that.. born a boy, might grow up to feel you were born in the wrong body, now you can change sex, change gender... But you're born what you're born. I just want people to be happy jeez.

Show quote history

Born in the wrong body is over.

Mermaids tweeted that of course no one is born in the wrong body.

Gender is a social construct, sex is binary.
Gender has at last count 81 versions, ultimately limitless as you can call yourself any amount of those 86in any order.
Sex has male and female only.

Words matter.

Datun · 12/04/2023 10:06

Despite most people not rating him as an actor, he is, arguably, the most famous child actor on the planet.

I suspect it comes with its own issues.

FrancescaContini · 12/04/2023 10:07

I read somewhere that there are over 100 genders. Maybe it was the New Zealand census form? Poor bastards, having to categorise all that information 😬

ladygindiva · 12/04/2023 10:07

" trust kids to tell you who they are"
Ok so dd2 is a cat and dd3 is a fairy princess. Ok.

FrancescaContini · 12/04/2023 10:08

Datun · 12/04/2023 10:06

Despite most people not rating him as an actor, he is, arguably, the most famous child actor on the planet.

I suspect it comes with its own issues.

Ah, but how do we know he was a child? That’s a very “condescending” assumption to make, @Datun

OutsideitsAmerica · 12/04/2023 10:11

Daniel Radcliffe has led a very untypical life. He is adored by his fans and along with the other cast members who have publicly dissed JKR, he’s doing a great job at keeping many young kids from detaching themselves or boycotting the Harry Potter franchise. Warner Brothers must be cheering him on.

He probably thinks he’s being kind and supportive but I just don’t think he’s thought about this issue deeply enough. He’s lived in a world where he’s pretended to be something he’s not his whole life. Yes, I know that’s just ‘acting’ but having done that and being in that intense spotlight from such a young age - it hasn’t prepared him much for ‘ordinary’ living has it? Maybe he’s fantasised about being actually able to shapeshift to avoid being spotted when he’s out and about - there’s no corner of the world that doesn’t know his face - how must that feel?

I wonder whether he’ll feel differently when he’s holding his own child in his arms? Do some parents hold their newborns in their arms and think ‘I hope you live a happy, healthy, fulfilling life, and if you want powerful drugs and major surgeries as a teenager, I’ll be there for you darling’ Surely every parent just wants their child to learn to be happy in their bodies? Or is that condescending?