Would you ever consider a transman a man?

[Sidaway]

Parallel question to this really:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4782092-would-you-ever-consider-a-transwoman-a-woman

Would the straight women here consider a trans-identified female, who "passed" really well, as a romantic/sexual partner?

And for the lesbian women here, would that "passing" be a turn-off?

No. I’m sexually attracted to men, not women.

What a strange remark. Of course you'd know the difference is there was any question of a sexual relationship. You'd probably know a long time before that. From puberty on, the difference in the pelvis means you can usually tell from gait alone which sex someone is.

My answer is also no. Nobody can change sex.

Haha. This is the exact idea expressed in that infamous tweet.

"I consider trans women are women. Except for relationship purposes."

I take it that's a "no" then 😉

Must admit, that's my thought too. Just, no. Even if I believed in the gender stuff (which I don't), it would seem too - weird.

Yes sorry it's not really a parallel question - both questions were directed at us women, and so present us with different issues.

Someone should tell these girls who think being a dude would be cool:

• straight women won't fancy them (missing something between the legs, and just not... quite right)
• gay men wont (ditto)
• lesbians wont (too masculine)
• straight men won't (ditto)

Feel very sorry for what their lives might hold.

yes but that doesn't mean i would be attracted to them.

we don't like to admit it but bodies feature in attraction and if i was expecting a penis and there wasn't one then i think i would struggle to maintain attraction

No. It wouldn’t stop me treating them with dignity or respect, or calling them by their chosen name, but I still wouldn’t consider them a man.

No.

My best friend's a trans man. Met him when he was female, been with him through transition. It would be the strangest thing on earth now to think of/ refer to him as female. Dude's got a beard, deep voice and is absolutely built from lifting weights. You certainly wouldn't want him in the toilets with you (lovely guy but if you didn't know him and went off looks alone you might be intimidated by him, he is very burly looking).

So yes, a trans man can and is a real man to me. It'd be absurd to call him a woman.

@hippygirllucky , you can call your friend whatever you like. But I won't consider them to be a man. I hope that you are making sure your friend gets cervical smear tests regularly.

What a strange remark. Of course you'd know the difference is there was any question of a sexual relationship.

It would never get to that level. The few transmen I've known, while to me passed, weren't people that I was attracted to. Just like many biological men that I'm not attracted to for various other reasons. Don't even consider them in a sexual way, so don't know why you find that odd.

If I met someone and they were upfront and told me they were a trans man, I wouldn't be attracted to them.

That's one issue. The other issue is, do I consider TM men. Yes, simply because they look like men to me so I wouldn't know the difference.

I've never had an issue (yet) of being sexually attracted to a TM because I suppose 1) I know very few and 2) I don't find them attractive.

Why would you not like to admit it? It seems pretty fundamental to me. In the rare cases where a transman passes really well surely there is a moral and possibly legal obligation to be very upfront with a potential sexual partner about their biological sex.

No. A transman is a transman and not a man.

Some lesbians might fancy them, it's probably a very blurred line between Transman and butch lesbian in how they look but transman probably wants to be called He but butch lesbian is still She.

It depends what you mean by "consider" really.

Like pps I've known trans men who are so convincing that I would never have even considered they were trans until they told me - so in that sense obviously I did consider them to be trans men, as would presumably the people denying they would ever do so on this thread unless they've got some magic trans version of gaydar.

This is where I struggle with the "use the facilities of your natal sex" position tbh because I can imagine feeling uncomfortable sharing a changing room or whatever etc with one of those trans men, as presumably they do. Because they look like and identify as men.

Asking whether once I knew them to be trans I'd "consider" them to be male - again depends - I would address them by their preferred male name and pronouns yes. But would I think of them to be exactly the same as someone born male...probably not. But I also wouldn't consider them to be a woman in the same way as I consider myself to be a woman. I suppose I'd consider them to be a trans male as a distinct category.

Same with consider them as a sexual partner - that's a different question again.

No.

As for friendship or romance, those I have known have been either saddled with MH issues and troubled or viciously misogynistic, as if their assumed male privilege entitled them to women’s attention and deference.

@Sidaway , some people may well be attracted to a transman. No reason why not if they click.

But a transman is not a gay man. They are a surgically altered woman (assuming they've had any surgery)

I take it both these threads are part of some sort of TRA TERF account harvesting plan for an updated TERF blocker type thing? Well women on MN have been attacked before so hopefully most, like me, use throwaway email accounts etc.

IME of young non-binary and trans young people, not being found attractive may be one of the perks. I worked with a group of young people leaving care and a lot of the girls were either hyper-sexualised in how they dressed or non-binary/trans. I suspect for the same reason.

Which is why looking at young people's MH and trauma is so important. Rather than taking everything on face value and missing something.

I don’t think so. I can imagine finding them attractive and wanting to have a relationship, but I can’t imagine being sexually intimate with a female. Just turns me off- because I’m straight

No, not this one anyway. You can look through all my other posts. It was a genuine question.

No, I wouldn't consider them as men, any more than my young female relative who's recently decided she's a boy. If anything, she's become a more attractive young woman - the androgynous haircut suits her much better than the tame style she sported before.

Would I consider a tm as partner - doubt it. I like my men clean-shaven and without tattoos so a lot of the markers the more "passing" tm seem to sport are out. I do actually get really turned on by butches as well, but I think part of the attraction is the ambiguity. If that were still present, then maybe. But aside from the physical, I couldn't be bothered if they were constantly pushing for validation. Just so so primadonna-esque.

Yes, quite possibly.

I don't consider transwomen to be women. They are transwomen. But in my exprience, the transmen I know have full beards, deep voices and you would never consider for a moment they were biologically female. I'm aware they are not actually male.

Did you read my follow up?

Yes