What is a woman, by modern standards and definitions?

[mamakoukla]

Outright - I’m a sex not gender woman. But I’ve reached the point of so what exactly is a woman, as defined by inclusivity to gender based identification? If woman is gender-based, what is a woman by that definition?

If you ever find out, report back?

@EmotionalSupportHyena so not just me then?

It appears that sometimes, a "woman" is actually a person who was "assigned male at birth" but disagrees with that idea.

Why that makes that particular person a woman, rather than a penguin, or a tree, or just an unhappy man, I am not sure. I will watch this thread and learn 😃

Given that the gender-ologists always seem to give a circular definition of "anyone who feels like a woman", if we remove the circularity, maybe what they think is: "Woman: anyone who believes that their brain puts them in the class of people born with the body plan for making large gametes and gestating a fetus, even if they have none of the right bits."

This is it - if a person identifies as a woman, what are the particular characteristics that are essential to the term woman as opposed to… penguin or tree or unhappy man? I know I’m a woman because I have XX chromosomes and other physical characteristics but if it wasn’t for that why would I be a woman?

I do wish someone would tell us, in a non-circular closed manner.

I mean, we are told pretty much that men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are. And that's that. A thought terminating statement.

@MarinaRhinella so apart from the physical characteristics, what else? What are the particular aspects of having those body parts that leads to some particular non-biology based characteristics or behaviours that identify a person as woman? We are told it’s not about sex hence the question. If it’s not sex, what is a woman?

It’s really not difficult is it.

Woman = adult human female.

anyone else claiming to be a woman is simply wrong.

Definitely not just you!

None of the new-fangled definitions seem to include me - I’m a woman because I was conceived as a female zygote, born a baby girl and was lucky enough to live long enough to pass the age of majority in my country of origin.

Everything else is personality or aesthetics because the only thing that makes me a woman is being an adult human female.
🤷‍♀️

According to S.Twain it is:

the prerogative to have a little fun
Confusingly, Men's shirts, short skirts
And something about dying your hair.

From what I see, this is how the trans-ID males see the definition -
Woman, n. A vacuous bimbo who has an unhealthy obsession with their penis and breasts, poor dress sense, bad make-up and like to take selfies in public toilets.

I mean all jokes aside I'm not even sure now. I am what I thought was a woman but I don't really go round identifying or feeling like one. I just am.

One of those Matt Walsh clips the other day had a man saying that he knows he's a woman because women tell him so. That was a new one on me.

I am waiting to see what pops up in this search for a definition as well.

I have always been sex female, even as a tomboy. I’ve struggled with women’s unequal rights, trying to be accepting of inclusive while still wanting separate single sex spaces amongst others. So how does a person identify as female? It can’t surely just be the clothing.

It's anyone who feels like it at that moment (no commitment required) and there are also no requirements in terms if presentation or behaviour and if you think any of that is ridiculous then you're a howwid howwid bigot.

Oh, and also a Nazi.

It’s feelings. It you want some of the recent Matt Walsh talking to the people (men) who come to debate him this week at University of anew Mexico you will probably see its aml veey nebulous and based on feeling not facts and definitely not biological reality.

One video i saw said 'a woman is someone who says they are a woman'

FYI I am also an adult human female definition person. probably would be described as a terf

You're asking the question many of us have been asking for literally years. At first, you think there must be an answer. Many of the people claiming TWAW are very clever academics, thoughtful lefties who have argued about gender stereotypes, people who stand against homophobia, etc.

You wonder why no-one will answer. Or even try, even if it's not a precise, robust answer - just a stab at it, could be "well sometimes it's a female person, other times it's people who feel they subscribe to societal concepts of femininity, even though defining that precisely is often contradictory and sprawling."

This "woman", the exact thing they claim a vulnerable group of people are?

They don't know what it is, or they don't want to say.

I'll find a link to where a trans woman tried to answer the question - iirc by saying you shouldn't ask the question in the first place.

@ditalini I see you haven’t answered the question…..

The old class of 'women' has been eradicated. There's only one biological sex now and that is the male sex.

The new definition of 'woman' seems to be an idea inside someone's head (having to do with stereotypes about femininity), and that person can be of either sex and that idea doesn't have to even result in any external clues if the person is male and it can be temporary or permanent and the group 'women' can now be joined by anyone who wishes.

Though sexism and misogyny insist on using the old definitions, quite successfully, but we are not supposed to say anything about that.

Online I am told that asking this question is a 'dog whistle', probably because trans activists can't really answer it without revealing that most of us have been erased and our embodied identities invalidated, to benefit a tiny group.

I dunno I just feel undefined or I knew what I was but I don’t know what the rest of the woman group is now

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4546679-maya-and-robin-on-what-is-a-woman-personnel-today

Have a look at this article in this OP.

I was thinking about his earlier. As no one seems to be able to say what about a trans woman is a woman, other than because they think / say they are. (except for some undisclosable reason/spiritual essence that apparently is equal parts obvious and a secret.)
Can we perhaps get a trans man to say what they're not? And work on a process of elimination?!

I'm still not sure if I'm a man. I mean, I never wear make up or heels, and I live in jeans. I've even been known to drive a digger, given half a chance!

I did have a baby though. But I'm not sure that means anything? After all, I wear steel toe caps sometimes, so I'm probably a man, right? I swear like a trooper too.

Transgender person Shon Fay (who was featured in a Guardian article about ‘Men in Make Up’ before Shon discovered Shon’s previously unnoticed inner woman) once said some guff about women being a ‘shifting constellation’.

Do YOU feel like a shifting constellation?