What is a woman, by modern standards and definitions?

[mamakoukla]

Outright - I’m a sex not gender woman. But I’ve reached the point of so what exactly is a woman, as defined by inclusivity to gender based identification? If woman is gender-based, what is a woman by that definition?

taxpayer, you’ve made a number of snippy comments, but have yet to offer a definition - so there is no actual definition of ‘woman’ in the phrase transwomen are women? Maybe you could just say what the word ‘woman’ means to you?

To be fair to you, I’ve asked many others on these boards (BlueandRed, and Margarita to name just 2) and you would be the first to reply

Which rather proves that the OP is raising a very pertinent point

It’s anyone who feeeeeels like a woman, and there’s also plenty of natal women who are not women because they don’t feeeeeel like one.

and if you deny this, you are complicit in genocide and clearly wish the worst upon every trans person.

I’m a gay man and I also grew up wanting to be like my mother. Luckily I have the common sense to realise that doesn’t mean I want to change my sex! And I’m just like her now, but also very comfortable knowing that in a man. Being male doesn’t change anything about me intrinsically save for my biology

@TheBlonde23 how do you define feels (feeeeeels) like a woman? That is, I’m trying to finds a description which explains not denies existence

Shania says:

“The best thing about being a woman
Is the prerogative to have a little fun (fun, fun)”

Cyndi says:

“But girls, they wanna have fun
Oh girls just wanna have
… That's all they really want
Some fun
When the workin' day is done
Oh girls, they wanna have fun”

So maybe being a woman is entitlement to fun rather than just wanting fun, the way girls do?

While I appreciate some of the humour, I am a bit downcast about my lack of understanding on how and why an individual identifies as female (other than natal) and what are the essential aspects which define someone as a woman?

Actually please disregard the how and why; just let’s keep to what defines the term woman please

Well put, but correct me if I have this bodged up... doesn't the female sex still exist when FtM want into exclusive male clubs and rights of primogeniture, and I'm sure pay on a male scale doesn't automatically fall into their laps.

And of course when hetro men want to date (watch porn or sexually assault) they all seem to know what a woman is.

Oop just realized your 3rd paragraph is a nod to this, posting anyway as this pisses me off.

I always thought that the actual meaning of 'woman' was .....man with womb.

The thing is there is no answer other than it being a 'feeling'. The feeling can't be described or quantified and therefore anyone can be a woman on their say so.

It makes no sense whatsoever, but it is terrible to ask people to define it.

TL:DR You will never get an answer.

I also don’t feel like a woman. I just am one - on account of biology. So does that mean I’m not a woman?

I think if I was playing the identity game I’d have to go non-binary or possibly gender fluid but I’m too long in the tooth for that malarkey.

So maybe we should all just use female instead of women. But I already see TW declaring themselves female (Veronica Ivy, Julia Serano).

@FriendofJoanne it won't matter if we change what we choose to be called, those who wish to invade our spaces will simply decide to call themselves the same thing.

A woman is whatever some disturbed bloke with a penchant for dresses and flapping his wrists around says so. I mean obviously - Dylan Mulvany keeps telling us. We just never learn.

We could call ourselves gibbertyflipitfudgeballs. Pretty soon we would have all the male gibbertyflipitfudgeballs wanting in on the action.

these days it feels like woman = territory for men to invade if they feel like it!
shape of the pelvis is maybe a big factor?
also the 'Q angle'?

Pretty soon we would have all the male gibbertyflipitfudgeballs wanting in on the action
I do feel this is often what it boils down to, the need to dominate & always come out on top.

Sounds as if I’m a woman, which comes as quite a surprise, despite being the only one who even attempts toilet cleaning in my house.

I'm a woman but ONLY because of my biological sexed body.

If that isn't what makes me a woman, fine. I'll be a person. With a fanny.

Ask James Bond.

Under our new gender identity overlords “woman” = “blank canvas upon which men project their desires, needs, rage, envy, perception of stereotypes and fetishes”.

We do not exist in our own right, we are merely validation props, support humans, templates for facsimile, a resource for consumption and occasionally (when that icky biology stuff can’t be completely suppressed) uterus havers, menstruators, vagina owners or birthing parents.

Meet the new misogynistic boss, same as the old misogynistic boss.

It's "hate speech" to ask the trans-activists to explain what they mean?

You realise that this is laughable and will just be seen as an attempt to evade the question?

But this doesn't tell us what a "woman" is, it just says that there is a distinction between gender and sex.

OK, and being a woman depends on sex then?

I also personally dislike using a definition of gender that it's all "social construct", because at the psychological or gender role level, I doubt that's correct.

As PP said. ‘it’s feelings’

Or ‘ it’s complicated’. After which follows no definition, because it’s so complicated. Which is surprising. After all, theoretical physics is terribly complicated, but academics in that can still define their terms and concepts. Queer and gender theory is the one area in academia unable to define any of its key concepts.

The only possible explanation of this failure to define key terms is that, deep down, they know none of it holds together and will collapse as soon as one attempts to make it make sense.

I’ve studied a lot of religions and they all understand who is in the sex class woman and who in the sex class man. There are whole laws and shit affecting each sex class. So no, Shon Faye, it doesn’t shift over time and place. The laws and restrictions and freedoms attached to each sex class changes over time and place, but the understanding of what places you in either sex class remains constant.

So Shon, stop making stuff up and culturally mis understanding and colonizing other cultures to fictionalise your non-case. Cos nothing says ‘ I don’t have an argument’ like making stuff up.

This has to be one of the most desperate arguments I have ever heard.

you do realise that we understand the biological processes behind the ‘feeling’ of hunger? The hunger is just the end expression of the biological process created by needing more energy intake ( food). Some people have conditions which cause them to feel hungry when they do not need more energy intake.

Just like we understand the biological processes that cause hunger, we understand the biological differences that make someone either male or female.

Plus, we also know there are lots of feelings not located in reality. Anorexics are not really fat. People with body dysmorphia are not really ugly, people with delusions of grandeur are not really grand.

When examined, your example actually undermines, not supports, your argument.