Trans rights activism, a GC male perspective

[RealityFan]

Hallo Mumsnet allies, from recently-joined new comrade in arms. And a male to boot.
I've been deliberating leaving some thoughts on the scarred landscape that is trans activism, from an XY perspective. I'm unsure of how much interest a guy's thoughts are here.
My opinions range from the autogynephile/porn "sharp end" of the phenomenon, through my views as a male non parent on the phenomenon amongst teens, through the threat to free speech/institutional capture area, segueing nicely into the Labour Party's position and what this means post-2024 GE.
I need to be frank in this discussion, and some of what I might say may rub some readers the wrong way, but it's my heartfelt analysis.
I'm seeing very little from GC men online, save for Graham Linehan, Malcolm Clark, Dennis Noel Kavanagh, Simon Edge, Colin Wright, Billboard Chris, Wesley Yang, Jon Pike.
My take is of someone who's really thought a lot about this subject, has really weighed up lots of factors, and has really come down on the GC side, indeed is working hard to reconcile very strong emotions on the subject.
I'll post my thoughts if that's wanted, let me know.

I'm glad you are here OP and it's giving me hope to read about your views and how they have changed. Thank you.

Yes, I may have overstated my intent.

I'm going to return this thread and ask for a refund. Reason: product not as advertised.

yepp. We should do a class action. A lot of guff about how OP "used" to think (not wanting to ban Page 3 and all) and zip about what he thinks is really going on in TRAs heads (how could he know, tbh?) and zero answers on how he's going to spread the GC message among other sensible men.
1/10 for effort.

And what do you think that might be? Maybe I'm a little too pompous, maybe you have a total handle on men and this new MRA strain.

Ladies, I asked @RealityFan to post a thread from a male POV. I'm sorry you're getting a hard time for answering my request.

I'm a 2nd Waver and at the time, the assumption was that men and women were the same; I personally didn't think so.

I also went to a girls' school and as a Lesbian valued single sex spaces and thought it was wrong to try to abolish all men's...

So why do these women-hating autogynophiles and incels want in to Lesbian spaces? As for sure it's not their porn fantasy dream. More like women in sensible 👟.
Again thanks for answering.

Maybe said person on match day in a stadium toilet would get verbals, nothing else.

This sounds pretty intimidating and horrible to me. If I was a person in a toilet I would hate "verbals" and would consider it violent. Maybe they do have a point, our transgender people?

Me too

Ah. Ok.

I thought it might be something deeper, but ok... porn, prostitution, lap dancing and page 3. I see.

Men getting angry at women trying to be treated as humans is never going away, it seems.

What took you so long to see the light? I mean, that is pretty disgusting thinking you had going on there.

And you wonder why Julie Bindel has no time for men...

This is what you called your thread

Trans rights activism, a GC male perspective

So far we've had a summary of views you used to have and some vague handwavy other things about the disgusting state of men's toilets.

Where is the GC male perspective on, say, Let Women Speak in NZ and what happened there? Why do you think there are so many "cis" male allies in this violence? Do you think the MRAs are piggy-backing on the TRA violence/clapback and can't believe their luck that they get to do this AND have the police onside?

What are you doing to spread the word among men who could become GC men and women's allies?
Where are you doing this?
If you saw a TRA punch an elderly woman in the face repeatedly in front of you, what would you do?

Maybe said person on match day in a stadium toilet would get verbals, nothing else.

This sounds pretty intimidating and horrible to me. If I was a person in a toilet I would hate "verbals" and would consider it violent. Maybe they do have a point, our transgender people?

I have used the men's on matchday (family stand, the hopelessly inadequate (half the number of stalls as the men) ladies had queues to kingdom come. Often women with 2 small boys whose dad had been in and out of the men's and back in his seat while mum had to miss 10 minutes of the 2nd half.

So about 10 of us asked the men if we could use theirs. "no prob" came the shout back and they kept half the cubicles free for women to use. Of their own backs. No issues at all.
I've used men's at gigs (Ed Sheeran - to be fair, most of the crowd were women) and Rush (mostly male audience, the 2 ladies toilets were closed due to some drain issue, and men just let us join their queue. No issue.
Pubs - so many bloody pubs because of inadequate female provision. Always with permission from the men already there and never a problem.

Where are these totally dangerous toilets? Or is it that trans women just make a bloody fuss anyway?

I’m quite interested in reading about what this guy used to think, and how it seems to him to have informed this New, insane wave of incels, mra’s, TRA’s, the naff Tate guy.

My gist is that it seems to some that the women pushed too far, in reality not even fully to equality - but «too far» for women just to be humoured.
I have heard many a time that men thinks equality has gone too far. Usually when pushed on that it has to do with female autonomy and that women are present in almost all professions now. (not in pro military in my country). Like that is a threat.

The concensus seem to be that women should back off.
Which is what the crowds against free speech is saying straight: fuck off women.

I would like to know if you can articulate why your thoughts changed?

My DH has had quite an interesting journey being with me, and this topic made him exasperated. Until I pointed out the issues for his daughters. He’s still reluctant to discuss it. I think it is good that men also discuss this.

how is asking for equality "pushing too far"?

and sure, the journey is interesting. Current thinking and insight, as per thread title, into how TRAs think is very very thin on the ground. And sure it's good for men to discuss this but especially with other men and not just spaffing it all out here because we have all heard it all before. And we have asked OP to explain where he is doing this discussing with other men. but... reply came there none

Agree, my life as is and as was, is of no interest to anyone except me. But to show you my contrast of thinking, gives the perspective that starts to explain part of TRA toxicity. If you take the general laddishness I portrayed, and then extrapolate that to the new phenomenon of autogynephillia, you have the common front that women are up against. Of course none of this is original, it's just that maybe these connections are not apparent to women. I have no idea what's in an individual autogynephiles mind. But I do know what porn does to a guy's dopamine centres. And I have some theories as to why what was an edge diagnosis and niche lifestyle choice, generally frowned in by society, has gone ballistic and fashionable. But it all starts with antagonism to women, obsession with porn, and lack of social and personal constraints. I have some insight into that. And maybe my 180 to sharp GC cause and decrying my past is because I partially recognise how addictive this pornified worldview can be.

I stick up for women's rights as per all good GC troopers, will be attending LWS events in future, have written to my MP, take every opportunity to thrash out with other men.

We need all the noise we can get.

my h and most other blokes I’ve spoken to on this subject agree with me/you and think it’s outrageous that the T have latched onto the LGB group as it erodes THEIR rights too

sadly I think many men that it’s so fucking obviously wrong, that they don’t have to say anything.

So to summarise: you think the anti-trans arguments are feminism's most compelling aspect.

how is asking for equality "pushing too far"?

I assumed that poster was talking about the psychological effect where actual equality looks ludicrously unbalanced in the other direction, because we are so brainwashed as a society into thinking white straight men are the default/dominant group numbers-wise, so a true reflective mix looks very un-male and noteworthy.

I agree, the tide does thankfully appear to be turning

In summary, OP: I'm going to post and post and post and nothing i write has any relevance at all to the thread title.

Again: what are you going to do (or are doing) to inform other men? Since we're not going to get any insight into how TRAs think, we may as well salvage something from this thread.

It's pure power play. It gives them a thrill to not only impersonate a woman (Buffalo Bill using the skin of female ID), but generate the reaction in women, know you can't object for fear of the worst label you can now give anyone, "transphobia", and that you're metaphorically trapped with them.
What noone knew would transpire, not even the most fervent radical autogynephile, is that polite society en masse would take up their cause.
That a Sturgeon, or Biden, or Bragg, or Sarkar, would have common cause with Dylan Mulvaney and Eddie Izzard etc to look the other way when "her penis" and every other unacceptable situation arose, to force you to comply.
Now the powerplay and release of autogynephiles is at maximum, and women are irrelevant.
For the woman hating male, what better outcome?

You need to read the last thing I read. But now you're to be criticised if you think anything I say to men will make much difference. But rest assured, my criticisms of this movement are always made known to any man I speak to.
Sorry I'm so unilluminating.

How can sensible men make AGP men feel welcome in their loos?

Alternately, or for #bekind to be extended to women? And not just women you’d like to fuck, thanks.
All women

What's interesting is that you don't like Julie Bindel's antipathy to men. She doesn't actually hate all men, by the way. She works at the sharp end and sees the very worst of the male sex. You can hardly blame her for being less than enamoured. She is also a Lesbian and - even in left wing circles in the 70s/80s they were the absolute second class section of the already second class sex.

Yet you seem to be claiming that many men, including you, have found feminists trying to ban Page 3 as some sort of assault on your rights.

And that men will give 'some verbals' to gender non-conforming men in closed spaces.

And now we have trans rights activism as a result of men feeling butt hurt that women don't want to be commodities anymore.

Men - as a sex class - don't sound that great even as described by one who thinks he's seen the light, do they?

Sorry I'm so unilluminating.

frankly? you should be. The thread title promised so much. It's disappointing. But tbh it is precisely what i expected so there is that

So you're cross I haven't answered your specific Q's, and think the comments I've made are irrelevant or pointless.
Fine. It's my thread, and I've done my best to explain what drives the TRA anagonism.
That was the limited aim I was hoping for.