Trans rights activism, a GC male perspective

[RealityFan]

Hallo Mumsnet allies, from recently-joined new comrade in arms. And a male to boot.
I've been deliberating leaving some thoughts on the scarred landscape that is trans activism, from an XY perspective. I'm unsure of how much interest a guy's thoughts are here.
My opinions range from the autogynephile/porn "sharp end" of the phenomenon, through my views as a male non parent on the phenomenon amongst teens, through the threat to free speech/institutional capture area, segueing nicely into the Labour Party's position and what this means post-2024 GE.
I need to be frank in this discussion, and some of what I might say may rub some readers the wrong way, but it's my heartfelt analysis.
I'm seeing very little from GC men online, save for Graham Linehan, Malcolm Clark, Dennis Noel Kavanagh, Simon Edge, Colin Wright, Billboard Chris, Wesley Yang, Jon Pike.
My take is of someone who's really thought a lot about this subject, has really weighed up lots of factors, and has really come down on the GC side, indeed is working hard to reconcile very strong emotions on the subject.
I'll post my thoughts if that's wanted, let me know.

No, a man in a dress in the men's loo would not be assaulted. Just ignored. As would a woman dressed as a man.
Maybe said person on match day in a stadium toilet would get verbals, nothing else.
. But across the board, noone would say anything. The #BeKind mantra has worked.
One reason why so many men are agnostic on this is that women are no power threat to men.
A woman in the mens, in our changing rooms, in our prisons, in our social spaces? So what.
No physical risk.
Maybe a trans identified female teaching queer theory to a man's kids, that might be an issue.
Women in men's sport? Not happening anytime soon.

Rude.

I'm going to return this thread and ask for a refund. Reason: product not as advertised.

The power dynamic/risk assessment issues are all in the female side.
Ok, a male victim of DV might rail against a trans IDd female being in his therapy group.
But that's pretty niche, what are the chances.
Said female in any number of sensitive male spaces, I can't think of any crisis point.
What female could cope in a male prison?
Totally the opposite with men in female spaces.
The power imbalance is so vast.

see, you're not actually telling us anything we a) don't already know and b) have been shouting about for ages

So, i think you'd be better off taking your pov and info to MRA and TRA boards and telling them this, or talksport or wherever "regular" chaps hang out. This is nothing new to us. And doesn't seem to me to give much insight, if any, to the male mind

Frankly I'm just glad we're starting to reach a point where more and more people, male or female, are questioning the whole TWAW insanity. It feels like the tide is starting to shift....

I'm on your side. I'm just relaying how I felt at the time, and why so many men still want payback against feminism, now laced with the new pornified energy invading your spaces.
My 2003 self is not the same as my 2023 one.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think OP might've been more referring to ideas such as "Boy Scouts should let girls join!" or "No more men only golf/drinking clubs!" for example that then lead to "Let boys join girl guides!" etc.

can you remember why? Because there were activities for girl guides involving glitter, and activities for scouts involving being outdoors, camping and building fires.

What about the golf clubs? the Turf Club? the priesthood? were we wrong to want equality there too?

Thank you! You've said it better than me.

so you have typed a load of stuff that you used to think.
Again, this isn't the enlightenment i'm looking for.

No, most men don't give much thought to gender stereotypes.
We genuinely thought Billy Elliott was the end of the matter.
I know at least two dozen dads, their kids can look any way they want to.
No pressure from men to conform.

I get it. But many men don't.
Now if trans IDing women started cleaning up in men's sport, assaulting men in men's prisons, abusing men in men's spaces, the hackles might rise.
But there's no chance of those instances.

Welcome OP!
I have a few questions if you wouldn't mind!

• Do you think most men simply don't care about GC issues because it doesn't affect them in any meaningful way? (Ie. a female in the men's bathroom/changing room is only a threat in so much of false allegations rather than actual physical harm done to you)
• Do you feel threatened by females in men's bathrooms/changing rooms?
• Why? Why not?
• Which men's only spaces would you like to see a resurgence of? (Personally I think it's a tragedy that men & boys don't really have any "lads" things that they can go to anymore. I feel like this is the reason male communities have largely gone online, either through video games, or reddit etc.)
• Do you think men understand the extent to which women face sexual harassment throughout their lives? (I've had many men disagree with my use of "throughout" suggesting that I'm implying sexual harassment is literally every day, which I'm not. Covid spread "throughout" the world, that doesn't mean literally every single person has had Covid.)
• Are men aware of the obvious strength differences, or are they shrugged off as not important because "Well I'd never be aggressive with a woman!"?
• IMHO circumcision should be in the same "group" as FGM and trans surgeries, what are your thoughts as a male? Are any of your male friends circumcised & has a particularly strong opinion one way or the other?
• It seems to be an issue where trans women want access to things like women's domestic abuse shelters - Is that a thing for female transmen wanting access to men's domestic abuse shelters? If yes or no, why do you think that is?
• Have you had any experience in gender neutral bathrooms or changing rooms? What was that experience like for you?
• Do you feel like women hate men?
• Do you feel like men hate women?

Your wrong, my hackles are at neutral.

Why do men lack this basic empathy, then? Especially given how much empathy they seem to have for the men who have to be called 'she' lest it gives them the sad?

You all know me, I'm happy to take posts/posters at face value, although having been here for years I can see why regulars are suspicious. Personally as someone a bit younger (presumably?!) it's kind of interesting to see the take on what I grew up through.

Op are you a member of any social groups, political parties etc and if so how have you found the general viewpoints? Re losing your job, do you think that could've been avoidable or was it a crunch-time issue?

Point taken, however I come from majority-male forums in my hobby, sorry to over compensate lol.

you are getting snippy with people asking questions. And you haven't answered the toilet question, afaik.
It's ok. I'm long in the tooth, a 2nd waver. I'm used to it.

What are you going to do to persuade other men that trans ideology and self id is a problem? how are you going to alert other men? do you actually say anything if you see Gender ID in action harming women IRL?

Nope, male toilets aren't dangerous, just god damn filthy!

This is good. I think my DH is more of a feminist as we have daughters and he can clearly see the harm the trans movement is to women and girls.

Do you plan to do/say something in your male dominated hobby forums? Or elsewhere in real life? Cos that's where you could actually make a difference.

What does GC mean?

A lot of men are pretty unhappy growing up. Even the ones who seem to get lucky with women compared to the sad sacks like me.
Tabloids did bang on about women overstepping too.
I typically railed against campaigns to ban Page 3, stop lap dancing clubs opening, stop all-male golf clubs and smoking lounges, anti porn and anti-prostitution drives. Etc.
Julie Bindel and Suzanne Moore drove me spare back in the day.
But for whatever reason I interogated my thought processes, and distanced myself.
Tbh, I still am averse to Bindel's ongoing narratives against men, we are not all the same.
And the TRA rise has absolutely brought home the precariousness of women's rights, my 180 is complete.
Despite it seems my words not convincing a few here responding to me.

I'll put your request to customer services.

It's the direct threat/impact thing.

I could not get my father to care about any of this, lots of shrugs and open 'well it doesn't affect me' until I explained about his daughters and grandaughters in showers and toilets. And then he went ballistic and wrote to his MP. Until a female he regards as his personally was in the equation it wasn't anything to do with him.

The two new blokes last weekend in London who have gone on the record and shared videos (not counting GL, he's been doing this for years and paying the price for it), were not interested in women's rights or child safeguarding. One was a gay man, who is now trying to get gay men to organise and come to the Let Women Speak events, still not because they care about women's rights but because they have a major problem with the behaviour and have realised that they as gay men are next if women are successfully crushed. The other's agenda is catching the police making twits of themselves, that's his bag, and he was outraged to discover whole new twitting he'd never before noticed. Because women, what's that got to do with him? Women aren't sexually aggressive towards random males they catch alone in enclosed spaces. Women don't get off on being intimidating and making it very clear to a man that if they wanted to rape him they could and he couldn't stop them, and then smirk and tell him he's beautiful when he's angry darling.

Five minutes on the relationships board will find numerous women trying to deal with men abusing them and their kids, or abandoning them, or chasing them through refuges trying to control her and using access to the kids to enforce it, or to manipulate contact because that means he can take more money off her and loves to see her in as much distress as possible. You'll find the occasional three am thread of a women locked in a bathroom with a probable broken nose with other women trying to help her manage a situation where a man may well decide it's less bruising to his ego that she's dead than that she's successfully left him. And who doesn't want the shitwork of feeding, clothing and managing his kids day to day but equally isn't going to be bossed around by anyone as to when he sees them on his terms and how often, because that's power over her.

A LOT of women here have direct experience of this, and they've had it for bloody years. They have direct skin in the game.