Has anyone else fallen out with their teen or adult daughters over GC views?

[Lilifer]

Following from a comment on another thread, I'm wondering how many of us are out there who have completely different views on gender ideology than our teenagers or adult kids and has that affected your otherwise close relationships with them?

It has for me. My two girls are law students (one in Oxford) the one who is in Oxford is particularly TWAW in her views. When she was home at Christmas she chided me for referring to her non binary friend as he instead of they. I said nothing to keep the peace and didn't want to ruin Christmas in a row but it's horrible having this huge divide between us, this big thing that we cannot discuss because it would end up in some horrific row that might last for a long time. I don't think I can face that so for the moment I'm saying nothing in it.

But I want to discuss it with them so much because it is so important. And I don't think they are aware of the implications of any of it. For eg I mentioned the Tavistock clinic being closed down because of the safeguarding issues and massive clinical failures and my daughter seemed to think that puberty blockers were ok because they were reversible, like just pressing pause on puberty. They both also believe that JK Rowling is transphobic despite not being able to point to any concrete examples. And these are bright well educated kids. What the hell are they learning in these institutions?

Maybe it's just their youth. But this has definitely caused a wedge between me and my two girls and it makes me sad.

I'm sorry op.

Me and dd decided not to discuss it about 6 years ago when she was fully TWAW.

We had a discussion about it on Friday night (I don't even know how it came up) and she's now more GC than I am.

Posted too soon.

So don't lose hope. They could change their minds.

Sort of. Dd says she's trans. She tuts at anyone who dead names her or says she. She knows I think it's all horseshit. I'm dripping her info from non Terfy sites.

I think this is the problem with those who govern us, like the government, the councils, the police, the schools. Those who should have a non-partisan and neutral view on how life should be run have children who have been indoctrinated into the mantras and the thought-terminating cliches and feel they can't run the risk of alienating their children. So they introduce legislation which fucks off the majority to appease a vocal but successful minority.

I've got a 20 year old daughter who believes TWAW whereas I am totally GC (she knows I'm in WRN and that I did the Primark action yesterday).

When we first realised that we were on opposite sides of the argument a couple of years ago, we each tried to convince the other that we were right.

Now we tend to avoid the subject but if one of us does bring something up, the other tends to get annoyed by the stupidity of whatever is being referred to but doesn't take it personally. We haven't fallen out over it.

Can't discuss this with dd as she becomes upset and tearful. If pushed, which she does sometimes, I state what I'm for. I'm for challenging sex stereotypes, for women and girls' rights, for privacy and dignity etc. If she comes up with clap trap I challenge it, eg sex is a spectrum. I didn't agree with my parents on a lot of things and we discussed them. I had to bring a solid argument to the table not just an emotional viewpoint. Our kids are entitled to their view point just as we are entitled to ours.

I am sad as I see a lot of indoctrination taking place and the misogyny is off the scale.

I’m in the same boat, its so frustrating 😥
I went to visit SIL this week who was gushing about the wonderfulness of a the 7yr old child of an acquaintance being addressed as a boy despite this being biologically impossible.
I just left the room. 🙄

Oh that is so good to hear, maybe there is hope after all! 🙌🏻🙌🏻❤️

They’ll grow up eventually.

Oh I do hope so. I shall maybe avoid the topic for the moment, which is easy when they are away at term time but hard when they're home for holidays because it's so hard to avoid it and I hate having to police my own speech in front of them it feels so wrong and oppressive and makes me lose respect for myself 🤦🏻‍♀️

Oh god I would have had to leave too 🙈

My DD was similar to yours and I found it so upsetting as we get on so well about everything else.

My advice, if the subject does come up is to remain very calm and keep the conversation short. I’d say statements such as “People who read JKs essay can’t find anything that is transphobic” “The Cass review pointed out that PBlockers are not reversible” Then I’d change the subject/leave the room. I was not going to “discuss” facts with them.
I think this approach is working as
DD went to see the whole of Harry Potter And The Cursed Child a few months ago so I took that as evidence of a positive shift in her position. There is hope!

When DD told me that JKR was transphobic I asked if she’d read her essay and of course, she hadn’t.
The TWAW mantra is cult-like.

I've had tears from both of mine over my evil thoughts such as:
I think JK Rowling is right on many things and
Sex is real.

We've had discussions about nuance and grey areas and how I respect their right to think differently to me. They are so used to agreeing with me on everything , that this has been a shock for them.

The younger was horrified by a gender neutral toilet at a University open day, recently. Blokes not locking doors and pissing on the seats. I didn't rub it in.

TRAs want us to fall out with our daughters, I'm sure. They relish in causing GC women pain. Well, I'll never fall out with mine, they can think what they like, and they are very kind. One day they'll realise their kindness is being taken advantage of.

That's good to hear.

I think in my daughters case that there's an element of "be kind" to their thought processes and a belief that Trans rights activism is somehow a logical progressive follow on from gay rights activism which of course it isn't.

But worryingly my daughter recently was raving about a wonderful talk at the Oxford union given by American radical feminist professor Catherine McKinnon which just cemented her views on gender ideology and twaw. There is a huge element of elitism in this ideology too.

My DDs are similarly blinded. We don’t discuss the subject and if they knew about my donations to various GC organisations and individuals they would be very angry. …. so I don’t tell them and I chortle in secret!

Time will help I hope.

Thankfully DH is on board. Having an ally has made all the difference.

Think that is almost inevitable. We surely can all recall being teenagers and wanting to fit in, especially with the cool and trendy gang. The price of admission currently is to switch off your brain for a the duration which `I'm sure seems a fair price to pay. This nonsense will pass.

It is very common to have this issue yes. Agreeing to disagree can work and with luck eventually they will realise what they have failed to consider.
There is an awful lot of press coverage now that 'gets it' and you can easily refute the puberty blockers are reversible from sources online. A Canadian Psychiatrist has recently spoken out:
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4762928-canadian-psychiatrist-on-puberty-blockers-we-were-wrong

As an Oxford Law student she should be able to locate the 'transphobic' content in JKR's essay but of course there isn't any and she can't. Is she willing to engage with material containing differing views including JKR's essay?
She would be a very poor lawyer if unwilling to do that, you could try. How can she defend someone if she doesn't look at the evidence from both sides?

What does she know about social contagion? Mass hysteria like with death of Princess Diana?

Tavistock Scandal, the Hannah Barnes book is the one surely?
How does she feel about transwomen in Women's sport? When confronted by photos of the 'cheats'.

What gives Stonewall the right to redefine 'homosexual' as same-gender attracted rather than same-sex attracted?

Usually once people think it through, they start to see the light.
It is a cult essentially and 'no debate' has finally stopped working thank goodness.
Truly terrifying how it has happened across the West so quickly.
Best wishes.

The problem with going to Oxford is that they are told they are cleverer and better than everyone else and that they have authority to tell others what to think etc. DS is at Oxford (also Law) and whilst enjoying the privilege this gives him job offer wise, he thinks that the best thing would be if they shut Oxbridge entirely. He believes that the arrogance shown to 'ordinary people' by the government and civil service during C19 was a direct result of Oxford's fucked up 'we know better than those plebs' system. He would never dare reveal his views on anything to his peers or tutors. It's a very fucked up system.

Thank you @standys that's all really helpful.

She has never commented on Jkr essay Altho my other daughter who's not quite so captured said that she doesn't agree with all of JKR's points but that she didn't deserve all the threats etc so at least she has said that.

I will keep those resources and links to hand if we ever do manage to discuss it in a calm way.

2 of mine were very swept up on it, the eldest then started following de-transitioners and is now GC.

The younger one (gay so even more vulnerable to the BS 😭) still thinks I'm a Terf but I have hope.

Wow that's really interesting!

Yes I can see why he would want to hide those views in Oxford and isn't it so depressing that one of the best and oldest universities in the world has zero diversity of thought or ideas allowed?

My daughters friends are mostly not the very Wealthy set, mostly like her, state educated and not well off but they all think as one, and it's depressing how narrow the range of acceptable views is.

"TRAs want us to fall out with our daughters, I'm sure. They relish in causing GC women pain. Well, I'll never fall out with mine, they can think what they like, and they are very kind. One day they'll realise their kindness is being taken advantage of."

I agree. I think this will pass as they grow older.

We don’t have ‘big discussions’ about it be cause that way madness lies, but when it comes up, I say what I think, and they disagree often, and I say sure but another perspective is this - and say what I think again and why. Usually that’s OK. You have to stay calm.

I would also decide what hills you want to die on. If a mate wants to be called ‘they’ I would go with it because I don’t care and it’s polite.

When it’s about treating pre-pubescent children, or the invasion of female spaces or sport, or labelling someone like Rowling as transphobic then these are things I will argue against.

I lost my temper with a friend and demanded she point out to me exactly what JK Rowling said that was transphobic. Surprise, she couldn't. The conversation ended a little awkwardly but we're still on good terms. Not really surprised to hear a lot of younger people take to tears when discussing this, both because it's very emotional (at the heart of #bekind there really is a lot of kindness) and because their arguments turn to dust the second you challenge them. They KNOW they're right and yet reality is not on their side.