Has anyone else fallen out with their teen or adult daughters over GC views?

[Lilifer]

Following from a comment on another thread, I'm wondering how many of us are out there who have completely different views on gender ideology than our teenagers or adult kids and has that affected your otherwise close relationships with them?

It has for me. My two girls are law students (one in Oxford) the one who is in Oxford is particularly TWAW in her views. When she was home at Christmas she chided me for referring to her non binary friend as he instead of they. I said nothing to keep the peace and didn't want to ruin Christmas in a row but it's horrible having this huge divide between us, this big thing that we cannot discuss because it would end up in some horrific row that might last for a long time. I don't think I can face that so for the moment I'm saying nothing in it.

But I want to discuss it with them so much because it is so important. And I don't think they are aware of the implications of any of it. For eg I mentioned the Tavistock clinic being closed down because of the safeguarding issues and massive clinical failures and my daughter seemed to think that puberty blockers were ok because they were reversible, like just pressing pause on puberty. They both also believe that JK Rowling is transphobic despite not being able to point to any concrete examples. And these are bright well educated kids. What the hell are they learning in these institutions?

Maybe it's just their youth. But this has definitely caused a wedge between me and my two girls and it makes me sad.

I’d agree with this too to a large degree.

I do believe in calmly defending the important stuff and promoting the idea that different views are OK because I think complacency about democracy for example has got us into a terrible mess. But realistically I also think a lot of this will pass.

My DD (19) is a secret terf I think. She’s gay and only just finding her tribe so is frightened of ostracising herself. We talk a lot about feminism and almost always agrees with the things I say. She’s just frightened of being branded transphobic so keeps her cards pretty close to her chest.

DS (16) on the other hand is very TWAW and has fallen for the most oppressed propaganda. Fancies himself a social justice warrior. I take the approach of a PP and keep things short and factual if he mentions anything.

Luckily DH is on side and told DS he’d better not try and undermine women’s rights in front of him. That shook him, DH is very left wing and added some much needed balance. DS also prides himself on his critical thinking skills and always retreats to think about things so I have hope.

It’s a minefield.

My daughter ("J") is early 30s and non binary with lots of TW friends. I can't discuss my GC stance as discussion is impossible because J shouts me down before I can complete a sentence. J thinks my being on Mumsnet is horrific and that I should share their beliefs. Also that I should boycott anything else that J doesn't agree with. Pronouns are a nightmare and I struggle to remember to use the right ones so I get shouted at for that as well. Currently I try to spend as little time with J as possible.

I shared this video with my son, thinking he might have a sense of humour ( 28 and full on wokester). Turned out he didn't.

That is horrendous I am so sorry 😢

Mine is a police officer and mid 20s
we can’t discuss this
I realised a long time ago I was going to have to say nothing just to keep the peace
sad
but there u go

my daughter seemed to think that puberty blockers were ok because they were reversible, like just pressing pause on puberty. They both also believe that JK Rowling is transphobic despite not being able to point to any concrete examples.

My DD (16) came home from a life skills lesson saying the same - that puberty blockers were a great idea because you could essentially pause puberty , and reversible. And same attitude to JK Rowling. When I've complained about TW in sports she says there are always people with natural advantage who are better than others and this was no different. We haven't really fallen out about it, we know we're not going to change the others mind but it doesn't come up a lot in conversation.

Luckily (?) my DDs don't have the mental agility to do the cognitive dissonance required to think TWAW.

My friend’s lovely dd, mid-teens, is very kind and determined that you must say TWAW. She will cry if contradicted on that. BUT, she doesn’t believe TW should share women’s spaces, sports etc (third space is the answer for her), def wants to be able to specify female healthcare, she knows people can’t change sex, and she get mightily pissed off about men advertising period products. I’m hoping the veneer is just something she needs to navigate school/social stuff atm.

No. Mine think it’s an absolute load of bolleaux.

Also have a young adult DD who cries if the subject is broached. She cannot say anything more than TWAW and if we don’t affirm trans people they will kill themselves. She believes Stonewall (she seems confused between the riots and the charity) was started by a black trans identifying male. She refers to Isla Bryson using she/her pronouns. She samerz no problem in men playing in women’s sport. She is woefully misinformed on the issue and it has caused a huge divide between me and DH, and her. I hope once she leaves Uni and enters the real world she might grow up but for now she behaves as if she is a member of a cult. It’s quite depressing.

Mine has completely drunk the Kool-Aid and is old enough to know better actually. We have had one discussion on it. When I said that I wanted her to point out what J. K. Rowling has actually said that was objectionable, she looked very shifty, and I knew that she hadn't actually read the letter. She is otherwise a very very bright girl and yet she was telling me that there are dozens of sexes. When I disagreed with her and talked to her about cancel culture and how I had seen, rape, threats, and death threats, given to women who all happened to be middle-aged, who that women could be men, she ran out of the room and slammed the door, thereby cancelling me!

It's witch burning and book burning, and to be honest, I'm absolutely ashamed of her for her views. However, we avoid the topic now. I'm sure she thinks I hate anyone who is trans. Some of her friends are trans and non-binary and she and I think they are taking this very personally.

I did tell her that it was the male rapists in female prisons and men competing against women in sport that were my biggest concerns as well of course, as the fact that women are not able to say what they think, but it didn't go in. It's a cult. Whatever happened to "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

Try not to discuss it with them at all.

If you do then try not to be too argumentative about it.
It sounds counterproductive but actually the more you’re against it the more they’re going to be that way.

My parents were racist and it caused a massive divide between us.
It frustrated me so much that they were so closed minded and set in the olden days.

Your daughters must feel this way about you and they probably hate you for it.
For me it was the fact that they wouldn’t educate themselves and were so narrow minded.

My DD told me she was trans. I said there is no rush for her to label herself but I will support her in whatever she chooses.
It lasted less than 3 days.

The fact that you want to discuss it sounds like you want to fall out with them over it. Discussing it should involve hearing and understanding their side and then explaining your side.
It sounds like both sides just want to ‘discuss’ it to shut each other down and ‘win’.

If you want to discuss then why not ask if they have anything you can read and educate yourself on and you can also give them things to read too.
You could even start a thread asking if anyone has any suggestions of things you can read to understand the other side of the argument.

Just use the pronouns these people choose, why upset them, what’s the point?
Unlesd they’re rampaging through a tape crisis centre or a changing room what is the difference?

Just use the pronouns these people choose, why upset them, what’s the point?

This article explains why we shouldn't uncritically use preferred pronouns.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

DS is 21 and in a very arty farty university studying video games design. He is tediously TWAW and I think him and his girlfriend use neo pronouns. He knows better than to talk about it with me. We’ve had some humdingers. Had a bit of success with asking if he’d truly believe his dad was an actual woman if he came downstairs one day and said his name was now Susan. No? Why not? What would be different about that?

DD is just about to leave college and works in a town centre pub. She used to be swept up in this but now thinks the whole thing is cringe.

Most of the young people I know who haven’t been immersed in it at university are over the whole thing and think it’s nonsense.

Hell no, OP! My adult DD runs the spoof “Days of boyhood” series on Youtube, taking the piss out of the transgender movement in general and Dylan Mulvaney’s “ Being a girl” in particular!
She was also the first speaker at KJK’s Let Women Speak event in Glasgow, and runs the Gender Critical Autistics group on FB.
We are both firmly of the Terven persuasion.

I don’t know if you know of Caitlin Jenner who now presents as a woman.

’She’ spent her entire life secretly cross dressing and living a double life as a female and then transitioned at 60.

I think she is a very good example of a trans person as it’s not just a phase and she completely disagrees with trans people competing in female sports or having shared changing rooms etc.

She has been ‘cancelled’ by a lot of trans activists which is very ironic.

You could use her as an example of it’s not the dressing as a woman you have an issue with or even having gender reassignment surgery, it’s the men in females prisons, men in women only spaces etc etc.

For me the biggest issues are the fact that we have male and female stereotypes and this feeds into that - if you like football and having short hair it shouldn’t mean you are born in the wrong body.
Also that women have fought for years for equal rights and men are still being put above us.
The fact that nipples were banned from Instagram for years and then a transperson complained because they’d had a boob job and wanted to show their nipples and then Instagram completely changes their mind.
And the baby rave where drag queens were grinding around in thongs and high heels and parents pay to go and see them whereas women doing that in a strip club is seen as inappropriate and not child friendly.

So, if Harry still wants to use HRH as his pronoun, that's OK is it?

Your daughter sounds fantastic!

You beat me too it.

And then joked and bragged about in a speech at one engagement or another. I couldn't watching the whole speech because I was benched after rupturing my "eww fuck" muscle early on.

Is it not the same as having parents supporting conservatives and children labour? We have an mutual understanding not to bring up these topics, or a comment that’s let after to disagree and move on etc

My eldest dd has fallen out with her df, me and her siblings over the trans thing, she has been non binary, gay, straight and everything in between. She now married and has cut all contact with us all, because we don't believe men can become women and all the bollocks associated with it. Her dh fed her a lot of this rubbish to begin with.

One day I cracked and said "I will not be told how to speak about 'Saville apprentice -Lily/Liam Madigan in my one home' and that was the end of it.

I could then say "he" and it broke the spell, apparently we differ on some topics, they just aren't spoken about and we speak about other issues.