Has anyone else fallen out with their teen or adult daughters over GC views?

[Lilifer]

Following from a comment on another thread, I'm wondering how many of us are out there who have completely different views on gender ideology than our teenagers or adult kids and has that affected your otherwise close relationships with them?

It has for me. My two girls are law students (one in Oxford) the one who is in Oxford is particularly TWAW in her views. When she was home at Christmas she chided me for referring to her non binary friend as he instead of they. I said nothing to keep the peace and didn't want to ruin Christmas in a row but it's horrible having this huge divide between us, this big thing that we cannot discuss because it would end up in some horrific row that might last for a long time. I don't think I can face that so for the moment I'm saying nothing in it.

But I want to discuss it with them so much because it is so important. And I don't think they are aware of the implications of any of it. For eg I mentioned the Tavistock clinic being closed down because of the safeguarding issues and massive clinical failures and my daughter seemed to think that puberty blockers were ok because they were reversible, like just pressing pause on puberty. They both also believe that JK Rowling is transphobic despite not being able to point to any concrete examples. And these are bright well educated kids. What the hell are they learning in these institutions?

Maybe it's just their youth. But this has definitely caused a wedge between me and my two girls and it makes me sad.

It is but I would rather educate her young, than have her indoctrinated when she reaches secondary school

and

we have a friend with a 14yr old DD. Mum is GC like me and we were sat having a meal together. The subject came up. The daughter got very upset and said she knew TW were men but she had been told ‘be kind’ so many times she was afraid she would get linched at school if she didn’t agree with the TRAs. She also said she didn’t like going to the toilets as a couple of lads were now girls…

she was scared of saying the truth.

Funnily enough she said she wouldn’t have a trans woman as a sexual partner. And if her GF started testosterone then that would be also a deal breaker as she said the breasts, soft curves etc are part of the package.

i said she was obviously a TERF and then all hell let loose. And after a bit of angry words ( her to me) we decided to drop it.

dd was at goldsmiths when there was a bit of a debacle …

I just wanted to say that I'm really sorry to all the PPs who have strained relationships with their adult children over this. I'm 26, so a bit older than most of the adult children mentioned here, and I find this so hard to discuss with friends.

The sheer level of emotional reasoning surrounding all of this really unsettles me. The fact that grown adults are reduced to tears and slamming doors and cutting off contact at the prospect of others disagreeing with them is frankly insane, and I increasingly struggle to relate to friends I've known for years, not because we disagree on this but because our responses to being disagreed with are so different. It's like negotiating with a toddler.

Yes if you get to them first you win, mine never fell for the new science or wrong body souls rubbish. One thought the whole thing was stupid from the start and has been laughing with me at her peers, politicians and influencers. One though I was mean not going with preferred pronouns and laughing at the ideology.

My children did not cry over it, what's that all about?

This gender identity nonsense only happened as my children were teens, though they had millions of sexuality choices at school in year 7. I remember saying that it was a load of nonsense that it's same sex, both sexes or opposite sex attraction, that's all there is.

Thank goodness the young are more forward thinking than their parents. GC ideology will die out eventually because young people are not full of prejudice.

Shame so many will be mutilated

Ha ha. You're so funny.

DD declares herself non binary I knew it was on the cards, she's autistic and has rigidity of thinking. She knows I do not believe in gender and only use sex based language. She (thankfully) has never had a negative experience with a man so I understand her innocence.

There was a time when I was all "be kind" and "TWAW" when I didn't know better so I'm hoping as she grows that she grows out of it.

I hate the entire movement, when I worked in a secondary school we were trained in PREVENT, to look out for extremist views on the left and right, to listen out for exposure to influencial adults in the community or religious centres. I can not seen how the gender ideology is different apart from schools and social media are the influencial adults.

Can you explain why (presumably) those who identify as trans or believe TWAW are forward thinking?

Sorry to disappointed you, they are just frightened, most are misdirecting empathy and gradually as they discover problems with the ideology they back away silently.

It's a new state religion, it will carry on in a minority for a while and it will die out. People will deny having anything to do with it, be disgusted and laughing at it within a generation as happened with witch hunts.

@Singleandproud I couldn’t agree more with your comparison of gender ideology with religious or political extremism.

I’m wondering if PREVENT training will ever be advising schools and organisations to keep an eye out for gender ideologues? (Sarcastic, obv)

There was a man in the newspaper today, sacked and reported by his employer to Prevent for Tweeting about the Bible. Only approved belief allowed at present.

We didn't fall out over it, but when DD was early/mid teens (so about 5/6 years ago) we completely disagreed on the subject & promptly agreed to not discuss it in order to keep the peace. A year or so later she started to make comments that made me think her views were changing & eventually I asked her - it turned out that the issue of men in women's sport did not sit right with her, this started her following radfems on social media & doing a lot of reading on the subject. She's now almost as GC as me. I've told her how impressed I am that she had the strength of character to change her mind and to be openly GC at school - not easy as none of her friends shared her views, although interestingly most of the boys did.

She's now at uni and is just keeping her head down, being gay she is concerned that it would be social death in the circles she mixes in to be openly GC, which is a shame but completely understandable.

Wise words from the PP who said they thought that creating division was a tactic - but OMFG, biting your tongue and playing the long game can be painful!

Being disagreed with does not equate to being a victim of prejudice.

I used to just do my best to keep the peace whilst they were at Uni (not offer my views, say "I don't know" or "I'm not sure" to questions which could cause arguments, use "they" etc). Now I notice post Uni their views are not so extreme and they are coming back to more what I would call mainstream. So there is hope OP!

I raised the subject very tentatively with DD - she was then about 16.

She giggled a bit and then said "Welllllll......my friends think I'm a bit mean but I just think - isn't everyone non-binary? It's all a bit silly"

And I just started crying - I was so relieved.

I wouldn't say she was very exercised about it though - she tends to roll her eyes if I "go on" about it in the same way as when I go on about anything political.

Yes.My adult daughter shut me down very rudely which is not like her at all. First there was the Mermaid scandal. Then Barne's reviews came out. Plus people she respects are coming out to speak on the subject and rarely on the side of trans ideology.

DD has been working things through for a few years now but seems to be coming down on the "JKR hasn't said anything transphobic so why is she hated?" DSD2 is a teacher and bemoans the craziness of having kids changing pronouns regularly. She keeps her head down publicly though or with DSD1 who is very firmly TWAW. If you disagree you're "denying their right to exist" so I don't talk to her about the issue any more and only talk to the others when she's not around.

With DD when she was unsure, I got good traction with the line that men can be any kind of man they want to be, and still be a man. And you as a girl/women can be any kind of woman you want - there's nothing you can do, or wear or enjoy that makes you not fully a woman. You just might not be very feminine if you want to ride a motorbike or wear joggers. She really got that, as it's how I've brought her up her whole life, and she realises that this leaves no place for gender identity as a woman is simply a female person.

Friend's DD is at Oxford, been brought up a feminist all her life and very GC but keeps her mouth shut at uni, which is sad.

I do think the time to start talking to kids about these issues is preteens, when they'll listen to you (but appreciate that those whose kids are 25+ didn't really have this option as the whole issue just wasn't there 15+ years ago)

My DDs used to be, but last summer oldest DD peaked. It was after spending a weekend with her non-binary male friend who (shocker) turns out to be quite sexist and narcissistic.

Before last summer, DD1 would cry and cry about how wrong my views were. It pained her despite her being so able to civilly discuss other things we might disagree on (like she wants fewer police, I want better trained). Nothing upset her like the trans stuff. Now that she's peaked, she's experiencing similar convos with TWAW friends.

DD2 is early teen and thinks the kids at school with gender struggles are weird but she's VERY cautious about not upsetting them cause "I'd be cancelled"

Discovered the insanity of it all on here in 2015 when I wandered over to Feminism to see what all the fuss was about, as there seemed some weird debate about something or other. Up to then I was here for baby names and general time wasting.

I was stunned to read how Gender Ideology (which I knew a little bit about) had achieved such a stranglehold on so many institutions. As soon as I read they had invaded Lesbian spaces and expected Lesbians to sleep with men I was immediately militant.

I read everything and “educated myself” and then started talking to my then teenage children. I did rant at times but also did get my point across. My middle child who originally thought I was “being mean” changed her mind as she became 17 or so. She eventually told me one morning that she had gone to bed late as had an intense two hour debate over social media with a good male friend who of course called her transphobic. She eventually ended the discussion as she was too tired and frustrated and went to bed.

They definitely are affected at time with the appeals to “be kind” and the claims that somehow trans identifying people don’t have civil rights, but ultimately can’t deny reality. They are very close to their dad and I and know we are trustworthy, reasonable and honest (especially as their dad is a doctor and told them that not only can we not change sex but that opposite sex hormones in unnatural doses are very dangerous and shorten your life). So as we have reason, facts and reality explaining our views they do see the emotionalism and lack of evidence on the TRA side.

I am grateful to have got them through the teen years intact and with noone declaring themselves non-binary or the opposite sex.

I credit this board for waking me up from my obliviousness. I have contributed to many crowdfunders over the years and have been quietly challenging people IRL in ways that make them stop and think. So doing my bit against the transborg. My DH does the same.

I have four teens, and all of them think that gender ideology is just bullshit. They are not shy about their opinions either and we are a family of robust discussions. We live in a deprived area, and there aren't many gender warriors around, people round here have more pressing concerns.

My daughter told me, coldly, not to mention it recently, when I touched on it.

We get on well in general and it stings that she (presumably) considers me a bigot, where she used to broadly agree. My daughter has a new girlfriend and I know the girlfriend has a progress flag in her room, so the relationship might be having an effect. One of her best friends is also non-binary, and may have taken hormones as I couldn’t tell what sex she or he was.

It crossed my mind that, if the friend has taken hormones, then perhaps there’s a lot of pain to come. I suspect the medical side of this is going to implode and UK and US societies, in particular, will be left with a lot of damaged young people. I don’t really know whether to broach it again, or leave it. Leaving it is difficult though.

One of the most painful things is that I think it might stem from a time period when all this was very raw for me. I’ve noted that even JK Rowling, who was admirably measured for a long time, has become more flippant, now and then, and some commentators become harsh as they no longer care what others think, and speak the truth as they see it, which is not always palatable. I’m not sure what it was that offended, but I have felt very negative, from time to time, about, what is happening to women and I may have been better, had I taken the more softly, softly approach.

Both my sons are as GC as they come though. They both think it’s nonsense.

My god-daughter is 17, she started going down the TWAW / JKR is evil route but I was able to turn her around. It helped that she was open-minded enough to read JKR’s essay and also plays rugby so understands how unfair and dangerous it would be for her to play against males. Her TikTok feed is now strongly GC too.

there is a strong sense that those around her age who claim to be nb/ have special pronouns etc just don’t have an actual personality or are perpetually online.

Taboo subject here too - I can't understand how my lawyer daughter is so blinded. She considers herself a feminist too.