Has anyone else fallen out with their teen or adult daughters over GC views?

[Lilifer]

Following from a comment on another thread, I'm wondering how many of us are out there who have completely different views on gender ideology than our teenagers or adult kids and has that affected your otherwise close relationships with them?

It has for me. My two girls are law students (one in Oxford) the one who is in Oxford is particularly TWAW in her views. When she was home at Christmas she chided me for referring to her non binary friend as he instead of they. I said nothing to keep the peace and didn't want to ruin Christmas in a row but it's horrible having this huge divide between us, this big thing that we cannot discuss because it would end up in some horrific row that might last for a long time. I don't think I can face that so for the moment I'm saying nothing in it.

But I want to discuss it with them so much because it is so important. And I don't think they are aware of the implications of any of it. For eg I mentioned the Tavistock clinic being closed down because of the safeguarding issues and massive clinical failures and my daughter seemed to think that puberty blockers were ok because they were reversible, like just pressing pause on puberty. They both also believe that JK Rowling is transphobic despite not being able to point to any concrete examples. And these are bright well educated kids. What the hell are they learning in these institutions?

Maybe it's just their youth. But this has definitely caused a wedge between me and my two girls and it makes me sad.

Thank you.🙂

Why do they cry? I don't understand why the truth makes them reduce to tears, I have seen it with someone I don't know very well.

I can understand crying that children are being gaslighted, that a child has been rendered sterile, their health destroyed, life span reduced and body chopped by Dr Frankensteins.

I can not understand why the other side cries if you speak the truth?

I don't get the crying either.
It's really odd.

This just about sums it up www.tiktok.com/@donttellcomedy/video/7206874171765230890

Funny.

I have had loads of conversations with people from all kinds of faiths, they accept that I don't share their beliefs abd I accept they don't believe mine. I have never known anyone cry because am athiest said sky fairy or anything like that, the only group who cry are trans activists.

I can only guess they cry because they don't really believe any of it, because every other faith believes and doesn't cry. You don't see flat earthers or scientologists cry either if you don't believe, it's so weird.

I have a teen who cries when they hear about the alternative views about what is happening. I put it down to understanding there is great dissonance and the pressure to conform with their peers and friends is so heavy, but they also recognise the truth.

An example is knowing that in university they might have to make a difficult decision about supporting free speech or protecting someone’s concept of mental safe spaces to feel they are part of their ‘group’.

Another is knowing sex cannot change, yet mindlessly stating their female best friend cannot be distinguished from other teenaged males.

I don’t get upset with the crying teen because I understand the pressures contorting their mind.

I think The State Media's excellent video "Is gender Idelogy a cult?" needs another link.

The answer is "yes, it is". That's why you get such extreme emotinal reactions; compare it to questioning a Scientologist rather than one of the mainstream religious faiths.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My early 20s DD is very sceptical about trans activism, especially in relation to things like demands for unisex bathrooms. She worked with a colleague in a previous job, essentially an older man cross-dressing, and she was very spooked by them. I think she might see trans people from her own generation quite differently, but she was extremely dubious about that person’s motives.

You obviously have not read the latest polls over the past year. The current generation of 18-28 year olds are the least tolerant of diverse thought in the UK population.

How do you think that is going to work out? What do you think is going to happen in the next 5-10 years?

I haven't discussed this subject with DD for a number of years now but she got very upset and angry with us over trans issues. She was adamant TWAW.

My Mum told me the other day that DD had had a right go at her for saying JKR spoke the truth.

If you knew my DD you'd realise how out of character that is.

Quite terrifying how this cult like thinking has taken hold.

Agree that they get upset because they don't really believe.

My DD is seeing the light I think. Works as a scientist at a prestigious institution where they're all she/her, they/them. Sigh. But slowly slowly she's getting there. The Isla Bryson story, and some of the shocking sports stories have helped shine a light.

I wonder what the long term consequences will be, from this non belief/cognitive dissonance at hearing the truth/crying, polls show about 20% of the population are in this state.

As I say you get rolled eyes, mild anger, disappointment from Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus and Budists if you say you don't believe, where as trans activists cry on the spot, I saw it once myself, it's quite a sight!

Rainonthehorizon that's so weird, scrolling and seeing the Charles Manson image, as I just watched a documentary about the Tate et al killings last night and what really struck me was all these young, otherwise ordinary, attractive girls who were so brainwashed, and how much they reminded me of the extreme end of the youth TRA movement, some of the tiktok clips etc.

The almost more horrifying part though is that what we're dealing with now is state-sponsored and actually the indoctrination is taking place in schools and universities.

I was that daughter with my mother. We’d have some blistering arguments, let me tell you.

Then I came around and finally saw sense. It was a relief to have someone who pushed back, and better to have someone I could safely discuss my doubts when the cognitive dissonance hit. But we had that kind of relationship, where I felt safe arguing with her. Having her pass and losing that sort of safe space to be a bit of an idiot was hard.

I’m the daughter with the septegenarian tra parents and in-laws. They tell me I’m just as bad as the people who said gays were a threat (I never once brought same sex relationships up, they did). They say statistically the threat to women is so small as to be irrelevant and I’m being ridiculous. Mil says her allegiances lie with trans women as being the most oppressed in society. They refuse to listen and make it about toilets when you try to discuss prisons and personal care and sports. My mum
says none of it affects her and a transwoman wouldn’t attack her anyway. When I try to highlight that in general the threat isn’t trans women but men using self ID to make sexual assault charges even harder to prove, they say no one would go to such lengths. Any newspaper reports highlighting men going to such lengths are dismissed as sensational.

and yet when it comes to transmen my mother thinks it’s ridiculous that a woman would mutilate her body and doesn’t see a tm as oppressed but mentally ill. The hypocrisy and misogyny is astounding.

Fascinated by all the young women, cited on this thread, who actually start crying when anyone broaches this issue. There is a severe inability to cope with debate and disagreement among many members of this generation.

What is it about libraries and the tendency to latch on to really really silly stuff?

A friend of mine works in a library in the US and has said the same thing. She says libraries were almost eye-poppingly extreme during Covid too, as if it had become a feverish temporary cult of some kind. I’m not talking about libraries taking some sensible measures until the vaccine was well rolled out, but libraries in some areas shutting down for the better part of two years (even while everything else opened up), and then after that continuing with extreme measures that drove users loopy (quarantining books, walking around shushing people and scolding parents for letting kids touch things etc). Pity for low-income people who can’t easily afford to buy books and wanted to get their kids reading, huh? The actual bookshops all opened with no restrictions far earlier than this.

I don’t get it. Is there something about libraries that attracts a certain type of nutcase to be in charge of policies?

No, DD is 16 almost 17 and although she thinks trans people should be allowed to live their lives, she was raging at the double rapist situation in Scotland and other incidents of dangerous males self iding as trans women being allowed to share space with vulnerable women such as prisoners.
She also thinks JK Rowling didn't say anything wrong.

Sorry also 24 year old DS who is very left wing was still a teen when this all came out during Corbyn etc and he was very TWAW and called me a Terf . Then the assault of Maria McLaughlin happened and he was disgusted with Tra's lies and the way they said that she deserved it because of her GC views etc. DS totally saw it for what it was and is now completely GC. Has been for some time.

My daughter is 16. She goes to a girls school. Despite this her PSHE teacher refers to all the students as "they" and will only use she/her if a student requests it. 🙄 DD puts her pronouns on her emails just so this teacher is aware. 🙄🙄🙄

We haven't discussed it much but both her dad & I are GC. We sticker lamp posts and write letters and write social media posts on the subject. I think she's embarrassed by us. She mentioned that she's against kids under 16 getting medical interventions. She was annoyed I bought something from a woman who sells GC merchandise online once. She's also embarrassed by my atheist t-shirts and badges, so this is not new.

It’s sad as a society this is the result. They don’t want to be lied to but it has been packaged in a way so they feel they must be kind about it.

With dc the one thing I put in consideration from early age is you can’t change sex. The rest, the pronouns I don’t comment on.

We haven’t had issues yet but they’re still pre university

Conversation..

Soubriquet · Yesterday 17:09

My daughter is only 9 (10 next Sunday), so young enough to still have the beliefs I’m teaching her and so far she is with me on men can’t be women.

Oh, count yourself lucky, mine is just a couple of weeks younger (not snarking!)

At First School, they did some sort of inclusivity stuff, so at the age of 7, she told me that it was polite to use pronouns and that we have to protect gays and lesbians.

Then that Ella's gender is boy, because she likes football and climbing trees; we were out with her friend and her friend's mother, who is very down to Earth and sensible. Between us, we tried to explain that girls can do and act as they please, as can boys, without having to be the opposite sex.

That raised a load of "Eurgh! You're swearing, you said the S word!" I tried to explain the difference between sex and gender and she told me I was wrong, as her teachers had told them it's gender only. I told her that her teacher was absolutely wrong and that I could show her in the dictionary, at home.

She watches things on Youtube and I admit I don't monitor it minute by minute. Last year, she called me through, laughing like crazy and said, "Watch this horrible Karen!" (We've had a lot of "Don't call women Karens" discussions).

It was a cartoon, "She only wanted to pee," or similar. It was about a transw in a women's toilet, in America. The transw was portrayed as an elfin, harmless woman and the woman as a parody of a sturdy witch, oppressing the poor transw.

I'd seen the original video, which was posted on another forum. She said that we have to be kind and that she wouldn't mind at all, if a transw wanted to use the girls toilets. I showed her the original video, with the moaning transw - a hulking great thing. She wasn't entirely convinced, even when I pointed out that there had been an incident at her first school, where the girls wouldn't go to the toilet, because some boys were standing (deliberately) by the door.

I'm optimistic that she will realise what's what eventually, and depressed and angry that she was taught such crap at an early age.