Gender Critical Disputes - Radical Notion special edition free to read online

[IwantToRetire]

Cant say I have heard of Radical Notion. They say:

THE RADICAL NOTION was founded in 2020 to create a space for the resurgent wave of feminist thinking and activism. This not-for-profit magazine is run by an all-women collective of radical and socialist feminists. We are committed to the materialist analysis of sex-based oppression, and to challenging the material and symbolic structures of male dominance. This moment is a historic opportunity to deepen and widen the analysis of all aspects of women’s political condition, and its foundational role in all systems of extraction and domination.

We welcome words and images from women of all nationalities, classes, ethnicities and backgrounds to illuminate the meaning of feminist politics in their lives, and to create a global picture of this political moment. Our current battle, and the social, political and environmental unravellings we see all around us are, at their root, crises of patriarchy. We want to seize this moment to speak that truth.

theradicalnotion.org/gender-critical-disputes/

It seems quite expensive to subscribe but they have made this issue free to read online. A lot of it seems to be the ongoing antagonism (meaning the issues are real but seem to be motivated as much by personal fallouts) between radical feminist and socialist feminist gender critical women.

Some may remember this thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4662757-womens-place-uk-filia-event-the-elephant-ignored-yet-again and the revelation that WPUK seems to now be linked to the group Actual Gender Critical Left, who endlessly snipe about Karin Dansky and KJK.

Anyhow posting in case anyone wants to have a read.

Still not sure why some women think in the day of virtual opportunites to talk directly to other women, they need to go down the routed of "publishing" as though their ideas are somehow special and shouldn't be submitted to the rough and tumble on online forums like this one!

THANKYOU

I’ve just remembered Sir Bob Geldof harassing Farage with EU Facts About Fishing through a loud hailer, on a Thames river boat.

I am quite sad that Farage wasn’t on a canal barge, for piss taking poetry possibilities.

Although not being personally acquainted with Nige the Frog, I am never quite sure if it’s
Nigel Farage, rhymes with barge
or
Nigel Farage, rhymes with garage?

I'm suddenly thinking of the nuclear energy guy in his usa high heels

Furries, muppets, yellow hair, and luggage stealers in stilettos. Oh my!

I am seriously confused that someone denies sneering yet called us Farage Feminists?

And wonders why women react when yet another post is added to the seemingly endless stream of posts tone policing, denouncing of other women who are fighting for a single issue, and telling MNers we are not feministing correctly (while then deploring the posters who confess confusion as to whether they want/accept the label of feminist).

”seems to be increasingly dominated by women who are uncertain, at best, whether they are feminists”

I wonder if some posters have even read this thread? Because if they have and have not understood that there are women on MN FWR that are disassociating from feminism because of posts like the one this statement came from, like the essays released from a group of feminists where some seem to be more interested in denouncing a hand full of women who they disagree with. A group that still has a sin page for the woman some of them seem to have a personal vendetta against.

I think it is great that they put together their thoughts for those who haven’t read their thoughts before. They are free to do this, and I am glad no one is abusing them for doing it and people are free to evaluate and criticise the content of the work.

But this constantly judgement of women in the name of feminism and then asking why the number of women who are questioning if they even want to call themselves feminists is surely bizarre behaviour.

“It's nuts actually, the idea that any insistence that all women, even non-high-achievers, be included in feminism is somehow elitist.”

Am I misunderstanding something here??? Who is declaring that women who insist that all women are included in feminism is elitist? On MN? Where? Isn’t that what most of us are here saying - that all women have a voice?

lord, you’re all quite literal aren’t you? By Farage feminism, I meant those who cynically characterise (in order to dismiss) left-liberal feminism as a purity spiral, and who seek to convince their audience that if you don’t believe British society is a level playing field you are (in a case of comedy DARVO) an elitist.

@WinterDeWinter Too many big words at this late hour for me! 😁

I was a subscriber but felt the range of views was very narrow and it was getting preachy in the way Spare Rib was in its last days. I don't want to be told what to think. Women are half the population so its not surprising we have different views of what feminism is to us but my feminism can include Posie etc. It's about women wanting equality. It's OK to have different ideas about how to achieve that.

But this is a total mischaracterisation of why many of us think the Head Girls repell ordinary, non academic women from feminism.

It’s not a left/right thing at all, it’s a ‘has read all the big posh words’/ ‘doesn’t give a shite about all the big posh words’ thing.

en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/purity_spiral

Agree @2Rebecca Can't be bothered expending energy on ripping other women apart, or reading long essays on why some women are wrong for thinking differently. The speeches from today were heartbreaking and glorious by turn, and surely there's room for us all.

Another one agreeing. It's been a massive week in terms of publicity and change. Am not wasting any more time on a group of sour individuals swiping at women's successful activism.
There's more work to be done.

By Farage feminism, I meant those who seek to convince their audience that if you don’t believe British society is a level playing field you are an elitist.

Can mumsnet start a Pseuds Corner? If so would like to nominate this as the first entry.

I wont say anymore as I have now had 3 or it may even be 4 posts deleted when I have expressed exasperation at a thread getting bogged down in side show to the actual issue.

Am I right in thinking you can use the euphemism derail but not the 5 letter word that begins with a t and ends in an l?

Although they are not the same thing.

As someone who couldn't attend in person today it has been lovely to watch online and see the fantastic response.

I’m a feminist, I support women’s rights, and social responsibility, I am not ‘left wing’ I am a centrist.
I actually get a bit fed up with smug ‘I’m left wing’ statements as if it makes that women morally superior.

I wonder who has connected with more women this weekend? SfW or the Radical Notion?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-64531100

Great photo at the top of this BBC article.

I made it 3/4 of the way through but gave up because it’s based on a fantasy interpretation of what KJK has actually said.

Of course, it’s much easier to defeat a crappy made up argument that your opponent doesn’t even hold (KJK does not believe ‘woman’ refers to a gender identity 🤣🤣🤣) than it is to find the facts and then be honest (first with yourself and then with your reader) about why KJK has been cast out of the Real Feminist fold.

TLDR: this essay is an pseudo academic argument against a load of made up pish.

It really is a great photo!

I’ve added a few more of my faves from today to this post.

I’m so glad we are beyond the ‘skulking around town, waiting for a church hall venue to be released last minute’ era.

It was a very important era on the journey towards where we are now, out in the open, occupying the public square, and I, for one, will not be pushed back into shadows again.

^
This!

‘Antifa's Aunt Lydia’

is my new favourite phrase.

Hi there. I do not see/judge what you are seeing/judging.

those who cynically characterise (in order to dismiss) left-liberal feminism as a purity spiral

There’s quite a bit conflated and bundled together in this.

As far as I see it, it is the authoritarian left which is mocked for its purity spirals and the authoritarian left which the word ‘woke’ has now become associated. (However whether this is truly left is another thing - not sure how identity politics really sits with communitarianism).

Also it is authoritarian feminism which gets short shrift on mumsnet FWR.

By that I mean the corralling feminists by:

1. Are you in or out? Are you for or against? Are you a feminist or not?
2. Okay, so if you are a feminist do you think/do this or not? Because if you don’t think/believe/do this (could be a list of requirements as long as you like) then you can’t call yourself a feminist. So I’ll ask you again, do you think/believe/do this or not? Because if you don’t, you can’t call yourself a feminist and you are against, you are out.
3. Back to 1.

It’s really fucking controlling and unpleasant.

I subscribed to the Radical Notion for a year because I liked the premise but didn't renew my subscription because it was very expensive and I found it hard going rather than an interesting and enjoyable read.

I was exactly the same. The text was haughty and demanding, I never read a full issue cover to cover, I actually had to take breaks because I don't have that sort of free time!

Maybe I'm not academically minded enough and it takes a certain person with whole weekends free to sit and read it through? SFW appeals to me more as it's easily accessible, straightforward and there are ways to be a part of it. RN and JCJ feels the opposite.

Also judging by the numbers in Brighton and Glasgow, it's working. However short that bbc article was, it's a step forwards.

The Head Girl stuff is really boring now and honestly it's getting a bit desperate. If Posie is winning - and I think she is - where does it leave them?

I think the photos in that article of the signs shows the debate well.

”only men can be transwomen” in clear writing vs a jumble of signs that are more colourful than insightful or even understandable unless you are part of their movement .

You appear to be trying to convince your readers that British society isn't a level playing field.

I think you're probably pushing on an open door there. Does anyone disagree with this statement?

however, if you're trying to persuade people to share your views, adopting a superior tone ('you're all quite literal', 'therapy can help') using trite phrases to discount the views of others ('farage feminism') and your initial bizarre non sequitur are probably things you want to avoid in future

have you considered taking the time to understand what people are saying rather than imagining some things and arguing against those, freely sharing ideas, taking an interest in what others have to say and genuinely joining and enjoying the conversation?

No we are not all ‘quite literal’ and i don’t think anyone on this board thinks that British society is a level playing field

still its nice to have a definition….

and i dont think anyone has said that left liberal feminism is a purity spiral either

so no one here is a farage feminist…yay!