Gender Critical Disputes - Radical Notion special edition free to read online

[IwantToRetire]

Cant say I have heard of Radical Notion. They say:

THE RADICAL NOTION was founded in 2020 to create a space for the resurgent wave of feminist thinking and activism. This not-for-profit magazine is run by an all-women collective of radical and socialist feminists. We are committed to the materialist analysis of sex-based oppression, and to challenging the material and symbolic structures of male dominance. This moment is a historic opportunity to deepen and widen the analysis of all aspects of women’s political condition, and its foundational role in all systems of extraction and domination.

We welcome words and images from women of all nationalities, classes, ethnicities and backgrounds to illuminate the meaning of feminist politics in their lives, and to create a global picture of this political moment. Our current battle, and the social, political and environmental unravellings we see all around us are, at their root, crises of patriarchy. We want to seize this moment to speak that truth.

theradicalnotion.org/gender-critical-disputes/

It seems quite expensive to subscribe but they have made this issue free to read online. A lot of it seems to be the ongoing antagonism (meaning the issues are real but seem to be motivated as much by personal fallouts) between radical feminist and socialist feminist gender critical women.

Some may remember this thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4662757-womens-place-uk-filia-event-the-elephant-ignored-yet-again and the revelation that WPUK seems to now be linked to the group Actual Gender Critical Left, who endlessly snipe about Karin Dansky and KJK.

Anyhow posting in case anyone wants to have a read.

Still not sure why some women think in the day of virtual opportunites to talk directly to other women, they need to go down the routed of "publishing" as though their ideas are somehow special and shouldn't be submitted to the rough and tumble on online forums like this one!

Sorry iwanttoretire !!!!

Although for any farage feminists out there

keep on feministing 👍

I am sure that you think you are really clear in your descriptions, but this is just like your other posts in that it is almost like you are either deliberately mischaracterising posters on MN, are taking a very few and make broad brush generalisations, or you simply have your own prejudices that are shaping your description of the push back of women who are fucked off mightily at posters trying to tell us who we should read / listen to, and what we can and cannot say.

Perhaps what you really mean is that MN Feminism has changed from the small group of users you felt were just like you and has now become a very wide range of people who you mock because they don't know if they even want to be called feminists.

In part, and maybe a large part, because of the writings of some feminists - tone and content.

And by mocking, I mean this:

"Still, fucking depressing when a feminist board on a forum whose usp has always been that women's voices can actually be heard, seems to be increasingly dominated by women who are uncertain, at best, whether they are feminists."

This is akin to all those posts we get from people coming to this board and telling us who crap we are at feminism because this board, the board we were hived off onto, is only about Sex and Gender.

It misses the point by a significant margin.

Are you trying to tell us that you can't get your voice heard here, or are you pissed off because people challenge your opinions? And that you consider those who challenge your opinions to be confused feminists, without understanding why so many posters might be expressing doubt in that label. Because of writings such as this edition of Radical Notion from a group who has a sin list published with some pretty fucked up bad faith interpretations about a woman who they dislike.

"I think you're probably pushing on an open door there. Does anyone disagree with this statement?"

Is any country in the world a level playing field?

But yes, these posts all take on the feeling there is some kind of moral superiority behind it all. Which is simply not new and not something we have not seen on this board for , I don't know, hours maybe? If we are lucky...

I have read this thread and it is going exactly as I predicted it would.

There isn't any point. Either we will be chatting to each other or we will be talking to someone who is fixed on "transmit not receive" ( to use a wonderful phrase from another thread!)

Across thread after thread, spokeswomen for the RN/RN collective/Brighton collective/WPUK (it's all the same small bunch of women) have characteristically talked at thread participants, instead of truly engaging in the conversation. There's always a lamentable tendency to drift off into monologue #5829 on "what mumsnetters are like" too, from "you're all right-wing" to the latest "you're terribly literal minded". Notice that participants on the forum are seen as a monolith. I'm sure everyone here can speculate why it might be that women on a forum called Mums net are seen as an uneducated, hard-of-thinking, quasi-bovine mass, but this kind of unexamined misogyny is a bit hard to stomach from posters if they're simultaneously waving their own superior feminism credentials.

Giving birth didn't make me thick; I was thick before, too! Other posters were very intelligent, and they remain so. Try to remember they didn't expel their own brains along with their youngest child's placenta.

It really comes across as if the RN collective have a whatsapp group where they discuss a mumsnet thread, and their own interpretations of same, and they become so busy quoting, requoting and applauding each other's distortions, that the latest representative replies to what her friends have told her has been said on mumsnet. Never what was actually said.

This bit is an amazing example of just that. who seek to convince their audience that if you don’t believe British society is a level playing field you are (in a case of comedy DARVO) an elitist.

You think you're being called elitists because you think British society isn't a level playing field? Really?

How does that even make sense? People who think British society is a level playing field wouldn't believe in an elite, or even that people could successfully reserve privileges for an elite class of people!

It's not free to garden, but it's ultimately more productive: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4735980-spades-out-for-keep-prisons-single-sex

"Gosh you mums are a bit thick, aren't you? Just because I called you Farage feminists, you assume I'm saying that you support Farage or have aims in common with him! You idiots. No, when I say Farage, what I really mean is that you are all elitists who believe in a level playing field... wait, I mean elitists who don't think there's a playing field... or you play on a field with elitists, and Farage was playing there, too. That's it! How stuuuuuupid do you have to be to not understand that? Can't believe you thought me calling you Farage feminists had anything to with Farage. Ah hahaha. Ahhhh hahahahaha."

How does that even make sense? People who think British society is a level playing field wouldn't believe in an elite, or even that people could successfully reserve privileges for an elite class of people!

Bit tight for me at the minute, being as that I’m almost completely bovine and not earning very much, however this last bit is such a good catch that I’m off to make a small donation to KPSS in acknowledgement.

Also: it occurs to me that the full title of this magazine should be:

The Radical Notion that Women are Human but Only If They Live In Brighton, Vote Labour and Recycle their Plastics Religiously.

Also: Thank fuck for Miriam Cates, Jackie Doyle Price and Kemi Badenoch, without whom Rosie Duffield would have been almost entirely on her tod.

The Radical Notion that Women are Human but Only If They Live In Brighton, Vote Labour and Recycle their Plastics Religiously.

🤣 Truth hurts.

One out of three ain't bad, I suppose.

NicolaSturgeonsSOGIbottom Thank you! Please don't leave yourself short, but thank you!

It's difficult right now, isn't it. Work has cut my hours which means more free time, but also less money for seeds. Sigh.

Teawamutu Tell me it's the recycling. Please.

This! Spot on, Beastly!

What does that remind you of? Sounds to me just like a TRA telling us we're stupid and old and we can't understand. The authoritarian left employing TRA tactics. No surprise there.

I find people who cringe on behalf of others very interesting. as if the behaviour of others who literally don't know or care about them reflects on them. and lecturing readers as a single group, using 'you'. seeming inability to understand that there are many individuals contributing. like I say, interesting.

I agree.

Mucho forced teaming too on this thread and the spiked one. Lots of talk about what ‘we’ should be doing. I don’t consent to being part of a ‘we’ with this poster.

It was only a measly fiver (a bottle of Aldi’s cheapest fizzy wine)!

The illustration on the confirmation screen made me smile. Could easily be 3 terves and a GC bloke (although I suspect the one in blue is supposed to be non-specific/non binary).

Perhaps it’s a bit fatphobic though? 😬😂

Of course. Presumably in a Faragey style, alas, so I'm hoping Winter will come back and advise me how to do better.

Are you reusing grey water? Are you COLLECTING RAINWATER IN YOUR BUTT?

Yes.... I am actually.

If Tesco thinks Every Little Helps its (multi-million) botttom line, then it definitely helps KPSS. Don't disparage your contribution, Nicola. You'll do the Brighton Set out of their favourite job

Disparage rhymes with farage, doesn't it? Can we follow the cow theme, with "forage", or is that perversion of the worst kind?

Nice of Winter to turn up and give a live demonstration of why some people find the Real Feminists so insufferable even though they may share most of their political views.

It really is!

Nicola, in giving your fiver to KPSS you ran the risk of being called a right-winger, because according to someone who spoke from the floor of a WPUK meeting (and got a big round of applause) only right wing women have money spare to give to appeals and good causes. All decent socialist feminists (the only type of feminism allowed under WPUK rules) are too hard up to give a penny. The good news is that, having given all your spare money away, you are now officially skint enough to qualify as a proper socialist-feminist. So well done, you.

For me the most telling part of the whole 60 pages was where they published a right-of-reply type response from WDI / WDI UK to a previous Jayne Everton article - fair dos though it sounds like WDI had actually asked for a clear the air meeting - and then went on to double with a response of their own, defending JE, which was well over twice as long as WDIs statement, with citations.

Sorry if that sounds muddled but I was muddled too by the end of it.

But they said at the end they welcomed further dialogue with WDI /WDI UK so that's nice.

Apologies - Jayne Egerton (Thanks auto correct)

As a matter of interest, why do they dislike WDI so much?

Following the perversion theme, let us go to the Kinks.

They seek her here, they seek her there
Her clothes are anti-EU, but never FBPE
It will make or break her so she's got to buy British
'Cause she's a dedicated feminist of Farage