Feminism: Sex & gender discussions
Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return
Moomoola · 11/01/2023 08:15
Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
HiccupHorrendousHaddock · 11/01/2023 08:41
OP, can I suggest Bayswater Support to you? They are a group of parents with trans-identifying children, mostly girls, and they may be able to offer advice and support to you.
BigGreenOlives · 11/01/2023 08:43
There’s also Our Duty, they have a parents support group and campaign. ourduty.group
ArcticSkewer · 11/01/2023 08:43
Consider if your daughter could be undiagnosed autistic. In future years it may be something to explore together.
Right now, I feel for you. My family went through similar and I don't think there is much you can do other than keep the door open for her to return one day, keep being kind to her, go along with her current thinking, just don't fund it, be clear you love her and are always there for her.
Wibbly1008 · 11/01/2023 08:43
I think you are doing all you can OP. Text your daughter that you love her very much and will always support their decisions, that you are always there when she is ready to come home. Then leave it. I know that is hard but it’s only a game when two people play it, and this family love to play drama games imo. Your dd will come back when she realises you are the supportive ones and the family she lives with are always “on at her” for something. I would say with this approach she will come back on her own.
PronounsBaby · 11/01/2023 08:44
Hi, I have no experience of this myself and I know it seems ridiculous to suggest a podcast when you must be going through a terribly tough time ....but... The 'Gender - wider lens' podcast is a great resource for understanding what is going on at the moment with so many young people.
They have great advice from years of working with gender questioning teens and may be able to clarify some of the feelings and help everyone involved. It may be good to even hear how you and your whole family are not alone, there is hope and you are not transphobic for trying to talk rationally about it.
It is not a quick answer to your problems but I hope it will help you feel a little less like you are in a stormy sea.
Much love to you and your family op
Georgeskitchen · 11/01/2023 08:45
Poor you. You said the parents have paid for hormones for their DD from 15. Isn't that illegal ( assuming you are in the UK)
I don't know what to suggest apart from trying to wait it out until your daughter realises she could potentially ruin her life x
beastlyslumber · 11/01/2023 08:59
What a scary situation, OP. I think it's important to keep texting her that you love her and are there for her when ever she's ready to talk. It sounds like she has come under the influence of this girl's family and there's not very much you can do except keep the door open for her to come back to you. Does she have any other friends who might be able to give her a bit of grounding?
It must be so hard for you. I don't know of any specific resources that might help, but I'm sure others with more experience will some suggestions.
applesandpears33 · 11/01/2023 09:17
Your thread reminded me of another one that was on mumsnet about a year ago. It wasn't anything to do with trans issues but was about a young boy who was being manipulated by his girlfriend and her family and was being isolated from his own family as a result. If you can find the thread you may find some good advice. The boy eventually came home to his parents.
ArabellaScott · 11/01/2023 09:24
I'm wondering what social services might make of it, but I appreciate this may not be the best route to take.
Staying as connected as you can seems to be the best approach. This will be a long term strategy, too.
Listening, keeping comms channels open. All the comms channels - I use different apps to communicate with my teen and it often seems to help - discord, snapchat, whatsapp, etc. Also sometimes just daft stuff, to take the heat out of a situation. A silly meme or something. Positive interactions, daily.
Meanwhile - the other thing to remember is that you can't get water from an empty well. How are you and the rest of the family coping? Would it be helpful for you all to see a counsellor without your DD? Are there other strategies you can put in place to support all of you? This must be deeply traumatic and draining, and while you have all of my sympathy you need to take steps to protect and look after your own mental health.
Wishing you all the best.
OhHolyJesus · 11/01/2023 09:36
OP, I've no idea if any of the following is at all useful but FWIW...
It's quite early days, as a child a friend lived with us for 3 months before returning to her family. She may not have time to properly miss you yet. It could all feel new and exciting and she is enjoying this new found independence. So for this reason I wonder if you should pretend that this situation is permanent to encourage her to face some hard truths about this choice she has made. So for example, asking if the mother at the house intends to pay for all extra food, water, clothing sanitary products or if your DD intends to get a job after school and at weekends so she can still go to school (a legal requirement). I think you still need parental consent for a child to work if under 16 but you could check on the laws on that. Does she get an allowance direct to a bank account, so you pay for her mobile phone? There are consequences to being independent.
You could also suggest she comes to get some more clothes and move more personal belongings over there if she is moving out. She will have to do her own washing and sort her own school uniform.
Are there any siblings she will be missing or are they missing her? Any pets? I would talk to her about the status quo at home and remind her about the family life/routine she is missing out on, roast dinners, walking the dog etc...anything to remind her of home comforts and mildly suggest that life continues, doesn't she want to be part of it? That sort of thing. It also might give you a chance to talk about things not related to trans or her being away and be a way to encourage a different type of conversation which can be 'friendly'.
With the mother I would explain clearly that you have parental rights as well as responsibilities and that you have informed the police. She is obviously not in a kidnapper and I am not implying that but you can remind her that you are the parent and if she is to wants to take on any rights and responsibilities she needs to apply for a type of guardianship. This makes it sound very serious and I suspect that her "I don't want to get involved" stance is going to be increasingly difficult to hold.
The person your DD is dating is another part of this and I don't have any great ideas there. I'm not sure it's not best to ignore that and try to maintain and extend your bond with your DD in other ways. Invite her for a coffee or to go shopping? Generally I think parents shouldn't be their child's friend as they are the parent but if a hard line of "come home now or properly move out" isn't going to have the desired result then maybe gently stepping back whilst consistently saying you want her to come home might work.
I say all this with the greatest sympathy, I'm no expert and can only hope this is short lived and she comes to her senses.
Beowulfa · 11/01/2023 09:50
I would send regular friendly, chatty messages making it clear you love her and are thinking of her. Make it easy for her to return home without further drama.
I was thinking just yesterday about an old schoolfriend who got engaged at 16 (to an older boy, he had long hair and was going to be a famour rock star). Obviously that's not who she ended up settling down with. It's very easy to get into an emotionally intense, all-encompassing relationship at that age, and convince yourself that the world is against you and doesn't understand you.
ArabellaScott · 11/01/2023 10:03
I'm wondering if the mother is grooming your DD. I would perhaps call NSPCC for advice on that.
'The relationship a groomer builds can take different forms. This could be:
a romantic relationship
as a mentor
an authority figure
a dominant and persistent figure.'
Summerlark · 11/01/2023 10:04
I think you should call your child by their new name and use the appropriate pronouns. The more you fight this the more s/he will cleave to X and X's mother and being transgender. This is not the time to be parroting about sex not gender (or is it gender not sex). It may be a stage or it may not be but I can see very clearly that your behaviour is not bringing your child back. I think that you have to be just waiting and be willing for them to come home and tell them that. Don't keep saying it either.
RichardBarrister · 11/01/2023 10:05
Excellent advice @OhHolyJesus - I like the idea of explaining the seriousness of this mums interference and her responsibilities.
I have seen teens get influenced by other families and drawn away from their own but it seems that trans and accusations of transphobia are the most powerful levers to cause parental alienation ever.
Inviting dd and sometimes partner out for a coffee is a good idea - it gives partner less ammunition to demonise you if you are being friendly to both of them. Keep channels of communication open.
I wish you and your family all the best and I’m sure you will be giving ds lots of hugs as I’m sure he misses dd too.
selck · 11/01/2023 10:08
You're pushing your son away by misgendering him and dead naming him. I'm not surprised he doesn't want to be around you.
At 16 I went through something very similar to him, however my partner was female. She was abusive and not good for me, but she accepted that I identified as male and therefore was a preferable relationship than the one I had with my mother.
It took many many years but my mother and I are in a good place again now, the girlfriend is long gone.
Accept that your son is male and it is not his partner who is the cause of it.
At 17, it's unlikely that he will be with this person forever, but the damage you are doing to your relationship with him can and will be permanent if you carry on. Think carefully about what kind of future you want with your child, he will carry on without you if you keep it up.
MichelleScarn · 11/01/2023 10:16
Absolutely rubbish advice from @selck. Ops child will never be 'male' regardless of how they wish to present. Why are those who say this always fixated on one person only and ignore the damage that is being done to the rest of the family by their child's/sibling behaviour?
ArabellaScott · 11/01/2023 10:28
While selck is talking rubbish wrt OP's child's sex being 'male', the larger points are worth listening to.
The most important thing is to maintain your relationship with your child. This doesn't equate to agreeing with every mad fucking thing they say, or agreeing to whatever they ask. That's a hostage situation, not a relationship.
I agree to avoid getting into protracted theoretical arguments is pointless, especially with a teen.
They are mature - or appear so- in some ways, but they are still children.
As a parent you are their rock, guide, protector, provider and legal guardian. You can't always stop them from making bad decisions but you can remind them of your presence and constancy.
Beowulfa · 11/01/2023 10:32
I do wonder what the reaction would be if middle aged mums all announced that they too were trans, changed their names (to uncool old male names like Brian, Trevor and Derek) and started policing pronouns.
Why can't older women be trans too? I mean, just where are all the transitioning middle aged FtM people?
(I realise this is flippant, and don't wish to distract from your stressful situation OP).
WinterTrees · 11/01/2023 10:33
I can't offer much in the way of useful advice OP, but much sympathy for what you're going through. Do you have a family pet? I found, during the turbulent teen years, that snapchats featuring the cat doing daft things where always good ways of keeping connected, no matter how bitterly we had disagreed or how great the rift felt. Animals are neutral and often much loved, so a good way of reaching out.
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