Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

I remember this chap. His name is Richard Hoskins.

He’d lost multiple children in the most awful circumstances. The cross sex identity was a manifestation of some sort of PTSD dissociation…

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7911163/amp/Richard-Hoskins-detransitioned-four-years-living-woman-did-escape-past.html

From the article TheClogLady posted.
He told the programme: 'I'm not against gender transition. But what I would equally say is there are a huge number of people who use gender transition to escape their pain.

'I was escaping my pain and my past. I had gone through extreme trauma, but PTSD switches off the normal ways in which we analyse things.

Thank you ClogLady, it was either this man or another with a similar story ( I think from memory in The Times, Telegraph or Guardian )

This is a phrase to remember: PTSD switches off the normal ways in which we analyse things.

My own mum died when I was 13 so I have thought a lot about the connection with bereavement, as for obvious reasons it stood out for me in studies and comments I was hearing about the girls who are embracing all of this.

I do know like I felt like a bomb had gone off inside of me, and I had to wander around the room picking up my limbs and piece myself back together. I also never got any kind of counseling and no adults, including my dad ever talked about it or gave me support. So I suddenly found myself in a surreal world where the worst thing that could have ever happened, had happened and yet I was supposed to go on. Of course this coincided with being right at the beginning of puberty, I had only had my period for about 6 months. In fact after my mum’s death I didn’t have a period for at least a year. It was only when I finally started menstruating again that I remembered I had ever had a period.

So the shock is unbelievable and affects a child in every way, including the physical (we still see the massive fallout with Prince Harry because it seems he didn’t get the psychological support he needed as a child when bereaved).

If trans is an avenue to escape pain for so many girls, maybe it’s fairly obvious why they could fall prey. Also at a time of such profound loss, they may be particularly vulnerable to the intense love-bombing and support they can find online 24/7.

It makes me wonder if studies of cult victims more generally have found bereavement and serious family illness to be a factor?

You know, what also comes to mind is it’s a way of taking control. You’re in a place where the most terrible things are happening (bereavement/serious family illness/ disability) and it’s a way to gain control over your circumstances. You are also told there is a clear path to wholeness & enlightenment. I think I read the ED’s are also a strange way the mind tries to deal with distress, by excessively controlling the body.

I'm so sorry you lost your mum BearingFalseWitness.

I think I read the ED’s are also a strange way the mind tries to deal with distress, by excessively controlling the body.

Yes, and as well as ED for controlling life, I think there is a correlation between wanting to be trans, anorexia, and autism.

Is this even legal? At her age she can't legally choose to live with other people against your will, can she? Sounds like the police were quite crap OP. I mean, I understand being heavy handed mightn't help, but still. What a shocking situation.

A small detail I noticed OP - somewhere near the beginning of this thread or even in the other one you mention that an uncle texted her. I would encourage that kind of thing, as another strand of the advice others are giving about showing that your family life continues and is warm and welcoming. Any contact with your wider family will keep her life with you in her mind, even if it's slightly removed, and will keep her old identity closer to her.

A@ScrollingLeaves Girls with higher functioning autism, trauma, and eating disorders are more likely to be trans. I’ve seen studies on this. It seems simpler to become a guy than deal with the hard stuff in your head. Before starting hormones, young people need at least six months of nondirective psychotherapy to work through preexisting conditions before starting cross sex hormones.

Transgender Trend, PITT, and 4th Wave Now are other good places for support. After taking testosterone, your daughter may be left infertile with other health complications. Top surgery makes detransition tough. You’d rather have a happy butch lesbian daughter than a chronically ill faux son who has serious problem navigating the real world.
I’m a middle aged lesbian who wants girls to stay healthy and strong.

Suggest gathering as much information as you can. Ideas about suggesting how daughter deals with her independence from you, also. Many brilliant ideas on here from all perspectives.
Check this one out: mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/KtbxLxGkLhBMlSllJFktrkbDFxTtDfBFGV?projector=1

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/deprogramming-your-rogd-teen-part?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=67309&post_id=96474268&isFreemail=false&utm_medium=email

Good luck; had I grown up now, I'd have been a trans'd 'boy' with a mutilated body, instead of a happily married lesbian with a grown up daughter. She needs you.

I can't help thinking that outside agencies lihe school and police eould be dealing with things very differently if it weren't for thd trans issue. Sadly for some reason this seems to throw normal safeguarding and common sense out of thd window.

I know you have to tread carefully with your daughter and strike a balance between a firm and gentle approach, but please do make sure that you demand the support you deserve from these external agencies. Your daughter is a 15 year old runaway and it sounds like the school is either turning a blind eye or clapping along. If she had run off to luve with a 25 year old boyfriend at the other end of the country, this would be dealt with as grooming and the police would ensure she was returned to the safely of the parental home. It shouldn't matter that it's a child the same age in the same town.

Can you book an appointment with the school? Make it clear that you have not kicked your child out of home (that might well be the narrative that she or X's mother is spinning.) Explain you have not harmed your daughter in any way and are devastated she has run away.

Also, X's mother is part of the problem. If not the whole problem. Just like Susie Green of Mermaids, often once a parent leads their own child fown the trand path, thry then need to validate their decision by leading other people's childten away too. She will need careful handling, probably best to start with all smiles and politeness, but don't trust her one bit. Don't allow her to disengage from thr process, call her every day to check you how your daughter is.

One more thing: seek legal advice from a lawyer. Find out what you can do to ensure X's mum has no responsibility for your child at school of anywhere else. And what legal actions you can take to ensure that your child is not supplied with binders or hormone blockers against your will.

Stay strong. You can do this.

Is she only 15???? DH and I would be over there bringing her home, I know this is a difficult situation but she is a minor who absolutely should not be living with another family without your permission.

Do you have other kids @Moomoola ? How are you all holding up? 15 is very, very young and so easy to manipulate. I thought we were talking about a 17/18 yr old.

Nope she is in fact 17, my mistake. I think we would do what we legally could to bring her home if she is still a minor.

@CriticalCondition thank you ❤️

I think the problem that OP is facing with this, is that even if she did manage to get her home against her will, the daughter would just leave again. So I guess it's a bit futile and would only end up causing friction for no gain.

You do sound transphobe. Deadname, calling the kid daughter etc.

But the kid is her daughter. When a woman gives birth to a baby girl, that baby is her daughter. Such a basic fact has been around since the beginning of time. The kid might not want to be a girl but you can't expect the mum to go along with this and now pretend that she has a son instead. There's only so much we can indulge our kids before we are forced to say, "look, I love you but I can't bend reality to appease you".

At 17, children can leave home and live away from their parents, though it's a bit ambiguous, as they retain some 'parental responsibility' but you can't force a 17 year old home legally, though social service may support a 16-18 year old if they have nowhere to live.

A 16 year old can also travel without parental permission, I have looked this up, this is the case in the UK but not in other countries.

So, you and the police can only do what is legal, not what is desirable. That's why softer approaches such as keeping someone part of your family even when they leave are better- even if you got her back at 17, she will be 18 very shortly and may choose never to speak to you again.

16/17 year olds hold a lot of cards, sometimes more than you think.

If you expand the definition of ‘transphobic’ to include ‘mother talking about the material reality of the female child she gave birth to’ then sure, ok, OP is a transphobe.

Meanwhile, over here on planet normal, OP is a woman who is talking frankly and openly about her own situation.

So in this context, on this thread, you calling op a transphobe surely makes you a motherphobe?

Besides, how can OP be deadnaming when no names are being mentioned at all?
Weird.

Why are you more concerned about pronouns than the safety of a child who is being groomed?

If you are concerned your child is being groomed, but the police deem it not a crime, then the best option is to keep your child close to you and bonded with their original family. If you use the name they are no longer known as this will alienate them further. Be clever, OP, don't set yourself up as the enemy, but as part of the solution.

The OP is talking in private here on this site about her reality based in the experience of her own body and physiology. This is that she is the mother of a female child whom she gave birth to and whom she loves.

Talking about the situation and directly addressing your (young adult) child are two different situations though!

I find a childhood nickname has the best effect in calling a wayward adolescent’s mind back to a happy/bonded time, whilst not consolidating/condoning the new cross sex identity nor pushing them away by using their dreaded ‘deadname’.

obvs this is a personal approach and other families may prefer other variations.

Please no one report that 'transphobic' comment. We're always being accused of transphobia, it would be useful to have some examples of what is considered to be transphobic.

Hello, thanks all!
just to clarify, dd is 17. As pointed out, I’m calling her dd on here to keep things simple. I find talking and writing using they/them gets confusing quite quickly, especially if you are talking about more than one person who is also they/them/him, but a natal female.