Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

"I don't think you need to express cynicism OP but I wouldn't advise you to just go along with everything."

I must admit to being uncomfortable with people saying 'just go along with it. I remember listening to the detransitioners too and yes, they all said the same. Support but certainly not 'affirming only'.

Unfortunately though, if this other family is doing the cheerleading affirming action, this makes this a very difficult scenario to judge.

I don't have any advice @Moomoola but you (and dd) have my sympathy and good wishes for what that's worth.

Oh OP 💐

Have you given any further thought to giving up your job/returning to freelancing? If you were to do so, is there any chance your DD has always wanted a dog (or indeed a cat/rabbit/guinea pigs)? Because I’m not saying you should try to manipulate her into coming home by adopting a pet; but you absolutely should do that if there’s any chance it might work. Importantly, pets can do a great job at making houses feel “homey”; & your DS might benefit, too.

The “friend” sounds abusive (hence inverted commas) - I know you’ve been supplied with lots of resources & information; & I hope that you’re able to help your daughter break away soon.

Look after yourself

I’ve posted in your other thread OP, but the more I think about it, the more I think the role of the other person’s mother is absolutely crucial in all this.

This mother went down a different path to you. Full affirmation, paying for hormones, the lot. She is so so invested in this.

In helping your child rail against you and run away from home, she is - in her own head - showing herself that she made the right choice re. her child. That’s why you’re in a doubly tough situation. This mother is going to enable your child all the way, I think.

Funnily enough I was watching Helen Joyce on Triggernometry and she made this point (parents who transed their kids being the strongest proponents of gender ideology) which really made me think of your situation. The whole thing is worth a watch but the segment in question is at 52 minutes in.

“They’re sterilising gay kids” indeed.

If it were my daughter I would play along and use the new name, be as accepting as possible. Let them join the list for surgery as it is many many years long.

That was the partner can not possibly come between you. You need to keep communication with your daughter open so that when she comes to her senses she has somewhere to turn.

Discourage hormones for the time being as gently as you can, suggesting she waits until adulthood for health reasons. All the while using the choosen name and pronouns.

Just wait and be as welcoming as possible to the partner. Your daughter needs to be able to access you and know you are there and ready to help as soon as she feels able to back down from this.

This is utterly terrifying. I hate this so much.

Don't let the munchausen mum win.

There's some good advice here, get those lines of communication open and get your daughter back, even if you have to humour the larping.

And as for that disgusting woman, she'll get her karma. They always do.

15 is still a child. I'd be contacting the police

Ah just realised I misread, sorry OP

I’m sorry, I haven’t read any replies so I expect someone else had suggested this.
Just based on your first post it sounds as though x’s mother wants to affirm your DD to justify what she has allowed her own DD to do. Like Susie Green.

Regardless of the T issue, I am sure you are doing all you can to ensure that she knows that you love and care about her and will always welcome her home.

Probably avoiding all talk if trans etc is best. Lots if people have given good advice about making her feel loved and wanted.

In regard to keeping a boundary and your own beliefs so you don’t just affirm her,
maybe you could use her name but say you believe so strongly in her inner spirit, that is beyond male or female, that you feel concerned that she seems to be doubting her natural body - which is after all just a strong, well working vehicle for containing her spirit.

Don’t criticise her friend but just say there can be different approaches.

Hi, I’m quickly reading all your replies ( and avoiding the mess if a kitchen!)
thank you, you have given me some great ideas to follow up on. I have a lot of research to do clearly.
just deleted rambling reply as have just realised the time!
thank you will reply tonight.
am very grateful to you all. Thank you

Your DD has been manipulated and encouraged along this path - by whom and why? It might be X, X’s mother or even X’s father (you mentioned a Dad coming to collect her?) or a combination of those three people. The texts DD sent you that you think are written by someone else is very worrying. I’d guess X wrote those texts.

This is a game of chess. You need to predict their next moves, and, importantly, you also need to think how they’ll react to your moves. Remember they’re sitting there waiting for you to say or do something that they can pounce on to use as evidence that you’re transphobic and your DD is better off with them. So, hard as it might be, call your DD by their new name. One weapon less that they can use against you. Be outwardly friendly and accepting. Be nice to X, however you feel about them.

Hopefully, your DD will then realise that she’d be ok back with you. X and her parents won’t like this so they’ll try to push the transphobic angle more, but your DD will begin to question that as you’ll have shown you’re not transphobic. She’ll then start to see X and her parents in a different light. She’ll also have hopefully started to miss you. You’d then have a good chance of her returning home.

Don't announce that you’re going to use DD’s new name or anything. Just try to use it casually and naturally. If you can, meet up with DD for a coffee. Don’t say anything openly about X and her family. Listen, smile, nod along, say a few nice things about X, etc etc. But do tell your DD how much you love her and miss her. Don’t ask her to come home, but tell her family news, etc. The decision to come home has to be hers and she has to feel she made it freely.

I think it would be interesting to chat to her lightly about how come she chose her new name, and why that name in particular. And then explain how you chose her name when she was born and how exciting and important it was to name her. So empathising with her about how special it is to choose a name, perhaps this will make her think about what you actually do for her and how important she is to you.

Glad to see you here @Moomoola xxx sending tea, chocolate, hugs, cake, more chocolate xxx

Thanks wanda, michelle and everyone else. I read your replies to Dh who was a bit heartened, he came home exhausted from work, long commute and worry.
We both just miss dd, as I’m sure ds does too. He went out with mates tonight so that’s good. If anyone has any advice how to look after him that would be good. I watched him playing plants v zombies tonight, a game he played with dd when they were both little.
a bit heart breaking!
I asked dd if she and x fancied coffee, as x is her partner, best we get to know each other better. dd texted briefly to say she has found a job in a cafe out of school and is out with mates on sat. So no.
feels like every day she gets further away.
can I call the mum and say are you giving dd lunch, what about her shoes, can you cope given how you hide vodka under the bed as dd told me?

I meant to say thanks, good advice. Can I blow up the mums house?

Oh this made me and Dh laugh, thank you!

This too, thanks tanith ! Dh and his mate said they would dress up as women and hang outside the house. Cousin said ,’ I’ll show her how to be a proper man, we’ll stick a pillow up her jumper to give her a beer belly then we’ll go to a match, ogle all the ladies, smoke tabs, drink beer and get in a fight, phooawrr!’
I think my new name is Alan. I shall wear slacks and a comb over.
thank goodness it’s bed time!

My heart is breaking for you op.

This is grooming and there's a special place in hell for that bitch mother.

Congratulate your DD on her new job, and keep on plucking away, in between sending her family updates.

A job might be really good for her.

Hugs

@applesandpears33 I frequently think about that thread and wondered how it all turned out now. Wish she would come back with an update! I can't remember the poster or find the thread now but OP there was a lot going on there and may be of some help how to deal with this.

@Notallislost I saw an update about a year ago. From memory I think the relationship with the girlfriend had broken down and the son had returned home. The relationships with his mum, dad and sibling seemed to have improved a lot. I tried the find the thread the other day but didn't have any luck.

I wouldn’t pick my battles, if that means accepting things you believe are harmful. When I found myself in this situation I spent a long dark night figuring out that I had to be accountable to my child as they were now, and in the future . And I could imagine them saying “ I was a child , you should have protected me.” I was not going to agree to anything harmful. I was not going to be abused for transphobia, and I wasn’t going to pretend I wasn’t deeply cynical about all of it. I did go to they and them pronouns. I decided that if I lost my child , so be it, better that than allow self mutilation while feeling sick at heart. Weirdly it all then just stopped.
The lover and her mother sound like drama llamas, they will be enjoying this. Take the thrill out. Saving a poor little transboi from a transphobic parent is 1 thing. Having another stroppy teen in your house especially if they fall out with your kid, and they will Is quite another. I would retire gracefully. “I love you and I respect your wishes. As we can’t agree that you are male, you may be right to have moved out. My door is open”. Do not offer financial support, do not allow them to abuse you. Wait and see.

thanks all. Sorry you had to go through that zebracat Thank you for your hard won tips! I’m tempted to just leave her be as suggested with encouraging texts re job etc.
Should I be calling the mum? In a normal situation I assume we’d have chats about dd. This mum said she doesn’t want to be involved. Dh says I should be driving a wedge by being annoying and asking about dds welfare. - is she getting lunch, what about shoes etc. And mention the x told dd who told me how much mum drinks and hides bottles.
he says it will drive a wedge, I think any irritation would be directed at me.
just feel I haven’t been active enough.
but you are right I guess the glitter has to fade and dd needs to make the choice. My worry is that she can’t. She was obviously heavily persueded to go. And has boundary issues - she had trouble telling a friend not to call late at night as ‘it means you don’t like me’

My 14 yo dd is also like that on late night contact op. Being a people pleaser is hard. I think you can discuss logistics with the mum, your dd is not autonomous and needs money for things. Contacting her and using your DD’s choice of name could ‘prove’ you’re not ‘transphobic’. Maybe the mum will open up? I don’t think I’d be antagonistic atm but also don’t need to be full on affirmation. No prior experience of this btw and maybe I’m not correct. I’d try to find a middle ground if it will help you and your dd.

my iPad is fubar wording a bit odd btw.

I think you're right that any attempt to drive a wedge between them will rebound on you. Your daughter would maybe feel you're trying to hurt her or embarrass her by revealing things she's said about the mum.

Instead, maybe ask your DD if there's stuff she needs. If she isn't getting what she needs/prefers then maybe reminding her that you are still wanting to meet her needs is no bad thing. If you know where she's working then maybe dropping by with a comfort parcel? Or getting her sister to drop it in for her so it's not too confronting?