Dd ran away to be with trans lover and refuses to return

[Moomoola]

Hi, I was posting in the teens section and got some good ad vice and a suggestion that I post here.
here’s a link to that thread www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4699011-sil-cancelled-visit-as-our-dd-wants-to-be-a-man?page=1
im using ‘dd’and ‘she’ to keep things simple.
basically dd at 15 decided she was trans and I took her to get some boys clothes and didn’t pay it enough attention. To my naive mind it’s not (or wasn’t ) an issue.
Shes now 17 and started to date a girl ( x) who is 17, who’s parents paid for male hormones since 15. That was some concern as obv. X will have been through a lot. Dd mentioned that x has some mental struggles, the mum hides vodka. Dd is pretty naive, has had a few challenges and can be gullible.
in the last 3 months dd was clearly struggling.
just befor Xmas I made her a cuppa and she had vanished. We tracked her down to x house which she refused to leave. It was ibvioly coordinated as there was a lot of phone alerts and the dad had obviously come to collect her.
I asked the mum to send her back as it was Xmas day and we were concerned. I get a text back from dd saying the mum doesn’t want to be involved and why did I deadname her.
The mum obviously didn’t need to show the text to dd. There are other red flags that the mum is stirring. We got texts from dd saying we are abusive transphobes. If we try and talk rationally that’s conversion therapy. We are concerned that dd is being encouraged to write these. The grammar is sometimes too good to be dds. Any ‘friendly’ texts seem to be late at night. Though I may be overthinking that.
live managed to see dd twice so at least we are talking, but it’s as if dd is hardening herself from us. She has decided to live with x and her mum and is in love and considering top surgery as she has dysmorphia. At least she is still going to school.
we registered it with the police who said this is happening a lot and it’s a pattern.
we are not concerned about the trans thing as such, though obviously that’s part of it, we are very concerned that since dating x, a seemingly happy dd got increasingly depressed and convinced we were transphobic to the point that she had to run to xs house where she feels supported, and we feel she is being love bombed, isolated from us and coerced into thinking she also needs hormones etc.
we are getting nowhere. I seem to be living in a dystopian world where everyone has fake smiles and suggests we call her by her new name and everything will be marvellous.
live contacted Bayswater group, and I’m posting here as suggested by a pp in case anyone can suggest anything else I can do. For dd but also Dh and ds. Dh obviously distraught the more he reads and ds is spending more and more time alone on his phone.
Many thanks.

I'm not saying that your son is male and always has been, or that he always will be. But the pronouns and the naming is down to respect. He feels rejected and invalidated every time you call him she/her behind his back. This could be a phase, my situation was unpacked between myself and a therapist and I now present as female again. These things happen and my gender identity crisis was very normal and part of life by today's standards.
My advice is make him feel like you are his cheerleader and that you support him no matter what and he will have the room to experiment in a safe enviroment. Teenagers will always be rebellious in new and challenging ways that we can't predict but it's not worth losing your child over.

I see your points, selck. But personally I think part of being a dependable presence for my child includes not complying with something that goes against my personal beliefs, especially when that may be something that is harming them.

There is a balance to be struck, between being compassionate, understanding, respectful, and maintaining self respect. If my child were to become a Muslim, I would not recite 'pbuH' after every utterance of 'Mohammed'. It's entirely possible to be respectful of a belief without pretending to share it.

If your child is under eighteen, she is still a child in legal terms , and that means that an adult has to be responsible for her.

The following is from the Government website:

‘If you have parental responsibility, your most important roles are to:

provide a home for the child
protect and maintain the child
You’re also responsible for:

disciplining the child
choosing and providing for the child’s education
agreeing to the child’s medical treatment
naming the child and agreeing to any change of name
looking after the child’s property’

you seem at the moment to be between two stools, you still have parental responsibility, but another set of adults have assumed it, and to no good end. As your daughter is nearly an adult , social services/ police will not force her return, but I think you should try to regularise the situation by writing to the glitter family and stating that you cannot take this responsibility for your DD while she is living under their roof, and asking them to accept formal parental responsibility. That might at least make them realise that in the real world, glitter is not enough.

I do Hope you get your daughter back.

Hm. I'd be very cautious about raising the parental responsibility issue.

The mother is quite likely to use that as evidence that OP doesn't want her DD back. It would be immensely hurtful and could really damage the situation further.

It's tricky because OP is trying to deal with this other adult who is by the sound of it exerting undue influence, while also trying to deal with her DD. They need very different approaches. The mother sounds like she is not in good faith.

Personally, I would not die on the hill of names and pronouns whatsoever. The most important thing in all these situations, and I've seen lots over the years (many not involving trans, but 16/17 year olds running off with unsuitable drug dealer boyfriends and so on), is to keep the lines of communication going. I have a friend who has trodden this path; she uses her child's preferred name and her child knows she's gender critical, but she's able to communicate and speak to them by respecting their name, it's quite a simple shift and not even all about trans- in Breaking Bad Walt Junior decides to be called Flynn! Two years in, it should be quite easy to remember, people have been changing names in teen years for ages.

I think teens often are seeking something, one of my good friends went all religious at this point and asked us to attend happy clappy churches with her, we just kept our own beliefs, went once and it burned out after a couple of years.

Just ask yourself not what do I believe but how can I keep good lines of communication with my child and an open house so they are always welcome. They do do things we don't like, or are afraid of or we think are silly or dangerous, I still think that keeping the thread of connection is important.

No police force is going to come in and take a 17 year old away from where she chooses to live, if she says she's happy with the partner and the mum. They just aren't and if they did, your child will run back. What would be achieved?

I have fallen out with my dd over trans, I don't discuss it with one of them, the other is GC anyway, but we operate a 'this isn't worth breaking up our family or our friendships over'- half my dd's friends are trans or non-binary (in their heads), we discuss it but our goal in life isn't to convert or impose our beliefs this is silly on them, but to have friends, to live our lives.

Being a 'constant' doesn't mean holding a line which might risk losing your child, there's almost no things I'd be prepared to do that over, and this gender issue, which will fade away in 10 year time isn't worth it IMO>

I'm so sorry OP. This is a really tough situation.

I agree with PPs that the most important thing is to keep lines of communication open with DD and don't set yourself up as a GC or Terf - it will only drive her further away. Daily comms, keep it light, tell her about fun stuff that's going on at home, tell her how much you love her.

If she's moved out it's reasonable to stop any money you give her - for all you know she could be saving it up to get a mastectomy. Show her love, but don't enable her delusions with money.

In terms of resources - the YouTuber Benjamin Boyce has a number of interviews with detransitioners who were groomed into identifying as male by online or IR abusers. You may find it useful to hear how they were groomed in and what happened to get them out of it - there may be learnings you can apply to the situation.

You may also want to subscribe to the PITT substack - Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans. It's a place for parents of children who identify as trans to gain support and to access resources.

No police force is going to come in and take a 17 year old away from where she chooses to live but she has run away and been found, so surely they should do a welfare check? And that means talking to her away from the people who are influencing her, and giving her the chance to return home.

Oh, cripes, I'd misread the OP and missed that she is 17. Apologies. That does make a difference legally and emotionally.

Being a 'constant' doesn't mean holding a line which might risk losing your child, there's almost no things I'd be prepared to do that over, and this gender issue, which will fade away in 10 year time isn't worth it IMO>

IDK, self respect also matters? Insisting on some balance and standards of respect in a relationship? Modelling good boundaries? All of this can and does foster a healthy long term relationship, I'd say.

The 'trans' aspects of this are really incidental; it's about how we manage the differential hierarchy that is inevitable (and important) between a parent and a child.

I'm not suggesting being a dick about it - flexibility is healthy - but I'm questioning the need to essentially abandon all of one's principles and submit to 'anything at all' to maintain the relationship.

(FWIW I think most parents would willingly lay down their lives and do almost anything for their children, I'm not convinced that's a fair, healthy, or useful point to work from, though!)

It's terrifying being a parent. Sometimes that seems overwhelming. All the things that could go wrong, and sometimes do go wrong.

But we can't operate out of fear, it skews everything.

That's what I said on the original thread! So similar and so much more about what sounds like an awful coercive partner with enabling parents.

@Moomoola I'm so sorry she is still not home. Please keep the door open for her, hard as it is with the gender nonsense hopefully you have time before any action is taken.

I'd echo much said already. Keep communication open, keep it light keep it friendly. Avoid any touchy subjects. Use their preferred name if you can.
Share jokes/memes that are your 'in jokes' pics of family pets. Let them know home is still welcoming to them at any time.
I might be inclined to contact the police. Not to have them brought home, but to have on record your concerns around coercive control and potentially grooming by the partners Mum. She sounds deeply toxic.
Ultimately though, at 17 they're nearly an adult legally and there's vanishingly little you can do. Good luck.

@ArabellaScott I'm not suggesting abandoning one's principles and I don't think you are either- an example might be I don't allow drug use in my house, but if my dd ran off with a dodgy drug dealer I would still speak with her, text her and have an open house for her but not let him in the house whilst high for example. I'm not saying any of these are perfect solutions, they are pragmatic and you might get them wrong (I've struggled with what are appropriate boundaries with my teens) but teens do often plunge into what we deem inappropriate lifestyles, with people we don't think have their best interests at heart, I think changing names/referring to the OP's child as male is really quite basic two years in and will mean a lot to them, and allow dialogue to occur. It also allows the OP not to be seen as the oppressor/opposition which is what is currently happening. It must be awful for them to feel rejected at some fundamental level by their parents, however we see it.

Dr Phil is a complete knob, but he did come up with the phrase 'do you want to be right or happy?' I think that's the choice here.

I did read about a father who decided he was “trans”, too: dressed up as female, wore make up and insisted on driving his DD to and from school. She apparently decided she was not trans after all…

I don’t have any experience in this op. My concern would be that this mum may be giving your dd hormones. I think it would be good to find a way of letting the mum know that you have PR and as the legal parent, you do not authorise her to furnish them to your child. This would be part of a wider conversation. I also think that you should call your dd by her chosen name to avoid further alienation. I’m sorry that’s so tough.

There are going to be very strong opinions on different sides of this, OP, but this is about you and your child.

I feel the best thing you can do is to unconditionally embrace the changes your child is wishing to make. They want to be known as he? That's what you do. They want you to use a different name? That's what you do.

I'm not suggesting you suppress your own feelings, but deal with them with a therapist and/or friends, your husband, and with your child focus only on supporting them as they go through this.

It could be temporary, or it might be that this is who they are forever and continue to pursue their male gender identity. Either way, nothing is gained by you expressing cynicism, criticism or doubt about what they're expressing.

The theories and opinions on gender and sex don't matter right now. Focus on how your child is feeling, and make sure you genuinely, authentically accept them and what they say and do with open arms. Make home a safe space again, and allow them to talk about anything and everything with you. Really dig deep and try to remove cynicism and doubt from your conversations and approach with them; they'll be able to tell.

Just love your child. That's what will matter in the future (and now); that you showed unconditional and active love and support.

I would speak to the school and check they are aware and can follow through on any safeguarding concerns that may occur. They need to kn ow she is no longer living with you. Do they still communicate with you? Bloody heartbreaking. I have similar though not gone this far. We both tread around the issue.

Another one suggesting "pick your battles". I'd go for maintaining a loving supportive relationship and avoiding ideological arguments as far as is possible. Reminding her that you're on her side & that she's always welcome at home.
If it feels right maybe invite her to meet you for a coffee somewhere (neutral space) just to keep in touch? Keep it short, positive, check in on her, is there anything she needs & avoid recriminations etc? Aim to make it a regular occurrence if she reacts positively?
Such a difficult situation.

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-mind/202104/the-definitive-guide-helping-people-trapped-in-cult

Oh it's such an insidious ideology.

Teens will rebel whatever their parents think so I tend to think that, as others have said, you need to keep her close or risk losing her by pushing her further away.

This has the added factor of her being able to cry bigot if you don't go along with her wishes.

I'd arrange to meet her on neutral ground for a coffee, and give her a copy of 'I'm OK, You're OK' by Thomas Harris.
Be the stable, approachable parent to contrast with the drama and pressure.

www.amazon.com/Im-OK-Youre-OK-Thomas-Harris/dp/0060724277

It could be temporary, or it might be that this is who they are forever and continue to pursue their male gender identity. Either way, nothing is gained by you expressing cynicism, criticism or doubt about what they're expressing.

I think this is wrong. Detransitioners often talk about the people in their life who held the line and didn't go along with the idea that they were opposite sex. They say how important it was to have at least one person who hadn't bought in.

I don't think you need to express cynicism OP but I wouldn't advise you to just go along with everything. You can have questions and concerns, and raise these if there's an opportunity to do so in a gentle way. I would use their chosen name but otherwise don't go along with the gender nonsense. It's much harder for children to come back from this if they feel that everyone has pushed them along the path and will be disappointed in them not having hormones, surgeries etc.

I'm echoing @beastlyslumber's thoughts. I feel it is part of our experience as humans to look for wisdom to our elders. How many of us have had important relationships with grandparents who older people who have lived in different time periods with different contexts. Parents/grandparents need to hold a line for what they understand to be truth. This is wisdom. I wouldn't insist on calling her she and I would use the new name, but I would not relinquish my own understanding of reality. My feeling is that she may find that more valuable in the longer term.

All the advice for staying close, connected, messages of pets etc, family jokes and silliness I think are great ideas and ways to keep her route to her family clear.