Telegraph: "Exclusive: Boxing to introduce new transgender category"

[ResisterRex]

Seems no one is up for mixed-sex boxing. Whoever would've guessed?!

It would be amusing to watch Stonewall et al denounce this as "exclusionary" and "transphobic" but presumably they'd be well-advised to sit this one out.

www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2022/12/29/exclusive-boxing-introduce-new-transgender-category/

"Boxing will put out a call for transgender athletes to come forward in 2023 with the World Boxing Council looking to introduce a new category solely for trans fighters.

Mauricio Sulaiman, the president of the WBC, believes the sport needs to look closely at the issue for “safety and inclusion” reasons, revealing his plan to Telegraph Sport.
In an exclusive interview, Sulaiman says his proposal is that:
The WBC will next year issue a “global call” for trans athletes to come forward if they want to compete, with the aim of setting up their own separate league or tournament
Trans athletes will not be allowed to compete against non-trans fighters
The sport would look to adopt the “at birth” rule, meaning a trans fighter born a man would only be able to compete against a fellow trans fighter born a man"

🎯

That's sensible

Thank you @MuffytheWooWooSlayer. I find it incredibly disconcerting to read words I know the meanings of, only to find out someone has decided they mean something completely different.

Oh my days practicality and common sense. Quick get hold of that fellow and bribe or dope them back to normality (bitter sarcasm alert)!

Practicality seems to have become so unfashionable in general in the west, perhaps it’s on the turn.

I think it’d be quite interesting to have a mixed-sex league. You could have trans women (weakened by oestrogen to the point where they can (allegedly) no longer open a jar of pickle) against trans men (strengthened by their use of testosterone). In theory the TW wouldn’t stand a chance. In reality the TW would dominate the category especially if there was any prize money involved.

I’d say money and legal restrictions are the way out of this. I don’t think I’ll live long enough to see the actual end of misogyny unfortunately.

So therefore what is the UK insurance industry saying about their coverage for gender identity politics in practice? They understand biological sex and risk. They must know that clubs and venues will get sued to shit when women get hurt or killed by men who have identified into same sex contact sports for their own validation (or whatever reason it doesn’t matter)?

Arrh that makes sense - ok

@OnlyTheWeedsGrow oh look at your garden full of lush flowers.

Well, that's what i decided your name meant.🍂🍁🐛you know it's really hard to find smilies that represent weeds not lush flowers. God mg is so weedist

titchy
No - two further categories as I read it. One for transmen, one for transwomen. Apparently sex matters!

Arrh that makes sense - ok

No, it still makes no sense.

Transmen competing against transmen - how is it fair for females who take a performance-enhancing drug normally banned in sports, to compete against females who are only socially transitioned, not medically?

No doubt medically transitioned transwomen would have a similar issue competing against socially transwomen, as they claim that taking oestrogen weakens them,

It's all nonsense. Compete in your own sex category, and accept that the choices you make in life affect your access to competitive sport - just like everybody else.

You are right. It really is a nonsense. How have we come to this.

how is it fair for females who take a performance-enhancing drug normally banned in sports, to compete against females who are only socially transitioned, not medically?

I'm assuming that females who ID as men or non-binary who do not take performance enhancing drugs would still be eligible to participate in the female category (as they currently do) since they are female.

I find it interesting that the first sport to introduce separate categories for transmen and transwomen is one in which transmen have started to compete against men. I wonder whether part of the reason for this is that men ( those competing in the male category) really do not want to harm anyone seriously and are frightened of the consequences of competing against someone born female to whom they could do serious short or long term damage.

Which brings us back round the circle to competing in your own sex category.

I bet the majority of the actual men are petrified of hurting or killing one of the transmen
who, as a decent bloke wants to be that guy?

@Boiledbeetle 😊

Yes I agree that generally athletes should compete in their own sex category. But I also am happy for them to set up new categories for those who can't or won't compete in their own sex categories (so basically women who take testosterone and men who would otherwise be attempting to compete in the female category. For me this is an acceptable way around the problem of males attempting to compete with women.

Females who do not take testosterone can still compete against other females.

Males that do not suppress testosterone can still compete against other males without that disadvantage.

You're right of course @JellySaurus .
Effectively we'll end up with at least one of the two new categories having to accept currently banned levels of testosterone.

Which begs a further question - why not a fifth category with no ban on any performance enhancing drugs?

I should think this is a real worry for men. It's hard enough when they cause serious injuries to each other (male on male) but if you inflicted a serious injury on a female person I imagine it would be quite hard to live with that (unless you are completely heartless). My DP does BJJ in a mixed-sex class and he's always talking about the difficulties around fighting with women. He'd be gutted if he hurt someone even though they are there completely under their own choice. He says even when technically the women are loads better than him the differences in strength can completely undermine any superior technique. I guess in a competition scenario the skill levels would be better matched but there must still be a increased risk that a woman would be injured during the fight.

We know that testosterone causes harm to women. It is difficult to see how it could be ethical to create a sports category predicated on the expectation that the women who take part will be taking testosterone and will have to take testosterone to be competitive.

I hadn't thought of it like that. It would risk mis-use (beyond what was needed as a "therapeutic" level) of testosterone.

I dunno. 'trans men' who take enough T could near enough match a man of equal weight for strength, maybe. because that's the thing about boxing, greater physical size confers such an intolerable advantage that it's just taken as read that say a 10st boxer shouldn't be fighting all 11st boxer. I guess a 10st trans man who's had a double mastectomy and been on a lot of male hormones could conceivably have more muscle mass, and presumably less skeletal mass, than a 10st regular man? maybe. obviously you'd never get a TM in the heavyweight category but...

Could a natal female on T, match a natal male? Wouldn't the differences in the hips be a factor for how you stand, and have an impact on your rotation for a punch? Then there's the reach. Males will have a longer reach.

A natal female who took T from a young age would also risk brittle bones, surely. Boxing seems foolhardy under those circumstances.

No, there’s no way female on testosterone could match a male. Look at the East Germany athletes again. Even while doped up to the eyeballs they still couldn’t run, jump, lift, or punch like males.

I guess a 10st trans man who's had a double mastectomy and been on a lot of male hormones could conceivably have more muscle mass, and presumably less skeletal mass, than a 10st regular man? maybe. obviously you'd never get a TM in the heavyweight category but...

I suspect that wouldn't be the case actually. Arm length, hip and shoulder width and lots of other factors wouldn't be changed however much T a transman took.

And yes of course - good point - T causes osteoporosis in females making it even more unethical to allow them to box.