Telegraph: "Exclusive: Boxing to introduce new transgender category"

[ResisterRex]

Seems no one is up for mixed-sex boxing. Whoever would've guessed?!

It would be amusing to watch Stonewall et al denounce this as "exclusionary" and "transphobic" but presumably they'd be well-advised to sit this one out.

www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2022/12/29/exclusive-boxing-introduce-new-transgender-category/

"Boxing will put out a call for transgender athletes to come forward in 2023 with the World Boxing Council looking to introduce a new category solely for trans fighters.

Mauricio Sulaiman, the president of the WBC, believes the sport needs to look closely at the issue for “safety and inclusion” reasons, revealing his plan to Telegraph Sport.
In an exclusive interview, Sulaiman says his proposal is that:
The WBC will next year issue a “global call” for trans athletes to come forward if they want to compete, with the aim of setting up their own separate league or tournament
Trans athletes will not be allowed to compete against non-trans fighters
The sport would look to adopt the “at birth” rule, meaning a trans fighter born a man would only be able to compete against a fellow trans fighter born a man"

The women's mud wrestling, the new real female women that is, should be...interesting

Come on all you other sporting bodies!
You know what to do!

Would be very interesting @Boiledbeetle

Sorry @Norma27

I thought you guys were all for free speech and all that? I know it absolutely horrendous that one of those scary trans women would comment on a forum that targets...umm..trans people and issues.

Anyway, continue with your cheering of a completely unscientific ruling that'll hopefully be challenged for the trans male boxers involved (y'know those people you pretend don't exist).

Sorry - transwomen who don't go through male puberty - you mean children yes? Under 12s? Not sure this ruling is aimed at children somehow.

Why do you think males should be able to box against females?

Who do you mean when you say trans male? Born male but identify as women, or born female identifying as men? (Funny you recognised yourself as the 'usual scolder' though )

What is unscientific about it? Humans can't change sex. There are good scientific reasons why we have separate male and female categories. A feeling in someone's head doesn't change that.

I wonder whether transmen on testosterone will only be allowed to fight in the transmen's division? But presumably transwomen will be able to choose between the men's division and the transwomen's division?

See...didn't you spout off yesterday that we should go into 'trans spaces' to ask questions and also to BE POLITE whilst we were doing it

That works both ways mate.

Oh… excellent.

please link up the studies that support your accusation of no science being followed.

Or is this another false evidence claim by you as on the thread your flounced from rather than engage with.

I assume so. Not all take testosterone though.

Surely transmen will also be happier with their own division as they will be more likely to win that in the male division?

oh and Bee thanks for just giving us the confirmation of which trans group you represent, as you wouldn't last night. I mean we knew but you flitted without actually answering any questions of

so whilst you're here which way do you fall on the single sex spaces. Do you use the men's of your birth or the women's of your identify. Just so that we can make down even further which actual group of trans people you claim to squeak for.

So far, you seem to have not been able to provide any science or support for one single thing you have claimed .

Yet have used hyperbole, catastrophising, and projection, plus plenty of dishonesty, including making numerous false accusations.

Could you please engage with threads because we have many questions. You told us you speak for all trans people.

Including for female trans people. Yet your assertions about them seem to not line up with those of female trans people who have posted on MN FWR… why is that?

So please stop the name calling, the hyperbole and the really blatant emotional manipulation and actually engage in the spirit of the site.

Good that they're not allowing transmen to fight men. It's not good enough for transmen to sign consent forms.

I don't

I think trans men should be able to box against men and trans women who haven't been thru male puberty should be able to box against women.

I also think they should provide evidence that trans women are more of a risk in that sport, y'know, that science thing.

I did read about a couple of 'trans men' who each had literally one or two very low level (fighters' purses likelier to come from coins chucked into a pint glass rather than pay TV) pro fights against pastry chef level opposition. Which obviously proves nothing.

For the obvious reasons 'the trans lobby' tends to argue this one both ways - sporting bodies that make up policies on the hoof as and when strong TW competitors emerge are accused of victimisation, unfair processes, etc (see: Emily Bridges), try to do it preemptively and the same arguments you're making now get wheeled out.

There obviously won't ever be enough TW boxers even worldwide, never mind nationally, for a trans-only circuit with a viable fanbase etc, to ever emerge. I can't say that this strikes me as a bad thing.

Surely transmen will also be happier with their own division as they will be more likely to win that in the male division?

Only those who take testosterone. Those who don't will be at a disadvantage if they are only allowed to fight those who do.

So what would this mean for socially transitioned female boxers who don't take any performance-enhancing drugs? Would they be banned from fighting in the women's category because they call themselves transmen, or permitted because they are females?

Banning a boxer who does not use any banned drugs from fighting in their sex category because of their genderist beliefs would be like banning a boxer because of their religion.

It's all ridiculous. Just stick to sex categories. If athletes choose to use banned substances or substances that may affect their performance then they have to accept that they cannot compete. Regardless of the substance or belief or excuse. Why does the genderist belief trump the rules that all athletes must abide by?

TRANSMEN ARE FEMALES they can't fight against men who are male

Its really not that difficult a concept to grasp

Please explain how the proposal is "unscientific".

Also note it's not a "ruling" but a proposal.

... a completely unscientific ruling...

... provide evidence that trans women are more of a risk in that sport, y'know, that science thing ...

@EvilBee

Do you honestly think WBC haven’t consulted specialists/scientists/biologists etc before making this decision?

Or do you think they just woke up one morning and said “I know, let’s make this crazy ruling to ban trans people”!!

Fuck’s sake!!!

I find I have to translate all the time reading this thread, and others like it to understand what it is we are talking about. So exhausting. Men should not fight women is the gist of it isn't it? I agree. Everything else is bollocks. No-one is stopping anyone competing, just don't try to get in to the wrong category.

But isn’t testosterone a banned drug in womens sport

How are there Transwomen who haven’t been through male puberty?
I genuinely dont understand
Transwomen were born male so how can they become an adult without going through puberty? And as a male surely it’s male puberty?

What evidence would you expect to see and how would that evidence be gathered over what period?