Telegraph: "Exclusive: Boxing to introduce new transgender category"

[ResisterRex]

Seems no one is up for mixed-sex boxing. Whoever would've guessed?!

It would be amusing to watch Stonewall et al denounce this as "exclusionary" and "transphobic" but presumably they'd be well-advised to sit this one out.

www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2022/12/29/exclusive-boxing-introduce-new-transgender-category/

"Boxing will put out a call for transgender athletes to come forward in 2023 with the World Boxing Council looking to introduce a new category solely for trans fighters.

Mauricio Sulaiman, the president of the WBC, believes the sport needs to look closely at the issue for “safety and inclusion” reasons, revealing his plan to Telegraph Sport.
In an exclusive interview, Sulaiman says his proposal is that:
The WBC will next year issue a “global call” for trans athletes to come forward if they want to compete, with the aim of setting up their own separate league or tournament
Trans athletes will not be allowed to compete against non-trans fighters
The sport would look to adopt the “at birth” rule, meaning a trans fighter born a man would only be able to compete against a fellow trans fighter born a man"

I am not saying that boys who were prevented from going through puberty and who become boxers should box with women, I am saying that neither of the male cateogories would be safe for them.

Keep holding your breath, @PermanentTemporary. Any moment now, @EvilBee is about to produce evidence that men who haven't been through male puberty have no punch force or other physical strength advantages.

Here's a selection of easily-Googleable, inconvenient evidence about pre-pubescent boys to the contrary while you wait:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22561975/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0363546508317963

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=prepubescent+strength+gender+difference&hl=en&assdt=0&assvis=1&oi=scholart#d=gsqabs&t=1672343979364&u=%23p%3DDy2-vD8LE48J

yes.... The very inspiring statement from Fae. I wonder if Fae knows that EvilBee is here telling people that males who have gone through puberty should not be competing against females.... kind of goes against the groups such as Stonewall and some sporting 'experts'.

No evil. YOU provide evidence that shows that transwomen who haven't been through male puberty have no advantage over born females.

There should NEVER be a category for boys who haven't gone through puberty. Reading that outloud really brings home what the hell we are talking about. It is dark ages stuff trying to pretend to be progressive. Sometimes I don't believe what I'm reading.

I am sorry that I misread your post PaleBlue.

I don't disagree.

I don’t think anyone on here pretends that any sex hormones “do nothing”. What a strange idea.

@EvilBee

Back in 2012, when Oscar pistorius was running really well, his blades were subjected to a massive amount of testing to ensure that he didn't obtain an advantage against those who were able bodied. Despite the fact that he was otherwise from a disadvantaged category on account of having no legs below the knee. Because it was felt that it would be unreasonable to let him in to a category unless it was clear that he didn't have an advantage. Pistorius was excluded until the evidence was clear.

Can you explain why trans women, even those on puberty blockers from a young age, should be treated as the opposite sex, without rigorous testing to ensure that they have absolutely no advantage? Your argument seems to be that scientists need to prove that every possible type of trans woman should be excluded by reason of advantage before they are, but this is not how sport has worked in these types of previous cases and it is unreasonable on other participants for people who may have an advantage to be included if it is not clear.

Maybe you should stop force teaming LGB people with your own political needs?

@PaleBlueMoonlight no indeed 😀

Yes but with prettier boxing gloves

To the sillies who want trans men boxing cisgender women, then go look up Mack Beggs..weirdly enough those sex hormones that you like to pretend do nothing mean that trans guys would have a definite advantage.

Of course females who've taken testosterone will have an advantage, and definitely shouldn't fight women who haven't taken testosterone.

OK I can't help myself sorry...@EvilBee if transwomen are women why do you always feel the need to tell everyone your a transwomen/transperson?

It's a page of text on a screen. We can't see you, we can't hear you, there is nothing that we can see externally in this forum, all we can see are your words.

So why don't you just come on here and not mention the transwoman/transperson bit? Why not just come on here, as the woman you are and be that woman. The real woman inside you.

It's a forum of women, surely if would make more sense to be here as your true self rather than as the shell of the external frame of maleness that you obviously shun.

Would it not make more sense if your true aim was actually to help us towards the path of enlightenment to talk to WOMEN about trans right as the real woman that you are?

Or is that to logical?

Are you for real?

I don't think one person on this board who understands the effects of testosterone on female bodies would "want trans men boxing cisgender women".

sillies - more of a projection than an accusation I think.

"With regards to your final paragraph, the petition won't do anything anyway - even if it does manage to somehow get past the line..and even if they do decide to debate, you'll just get a load of MPs standing up being supportive of trans ppl and a few Tories and Alba MPs going off topic, like the last couple of times."

Awww! some posters don't seem to understand that MPs are watching these discussions and every time they have come up, more and more MPs have said 'hang on, there are issues'..... Talk about blind faith. Maybe you cannot see the changes in the general population and the MP's over time? Or maybe you choose not to see it?

To the sillies who want trans men boxing cisgender women, then go look up Mack Beggs..weirdly enough those sex hormones that you like to pretend do nothing mean that trans guys would have a definite advantage.

Where are you getting the idea that anyone thinks testosterone doesn't give transmen an advantage? 🤔

Very few. Because they won’t have ‘superpowers’.

No, no Arabella.

We are 'sillies' who seem to not know anything. Remember.... this is a poster who declared us all boring and not very intellectual yesterday. But has yet to provide one skerrick of evidence to support any of their claims.

I mean, how can us 'sillies' learn if we don't get the links to educate us?

Apparently, we must take it on trust that some posters have more knowledge about such things but cannot prove it. But, it truly exists.

Remember we have been told by bee to be polite

Be polite about bee ladies

Shame bee is incapable of taking his own advice

Good my autocorrect hates me and is a sexist pig.always puts the male version first. Sorry bee

God! Not good for piece of shit. Oh it can disk that right.ughhhhh

I'm in a mixed sex kick boxing class and pretty much all the boys could knock me on my arse. In fact a lot of the younger boys could too

Hence why we are partnered up with someone of the same sex when sparring.

"It's weird, I ask for decisions based on scientific evidence (per sport, as I always have), but people aren't interested in that and are gleeful that trans men and trans women who haven't been thru male puberty have been blanket banned in the panic."

Hold the presses!! Am I reading this wrong!

Has this poster got sport by sport scientific evidence that they have not shared?

Is it better than this from Hilton & Lundberg

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-020-01389-3

or this from Harper

bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/02/28/bjsports-2020-103106

Maybe @EvilBee has early access to the one being done by Harper that Bridges is involved in or the one from Australia done by Ada Cheung!

As I said, I am now pretty excited that we have EvilBee here to educate us. Getting some early indications on those studies would be just awesome!

One of the reason's I've been looking forward to this sensible development is because it's so hopelessly non-inclusive to insist that people compete in categories according to gender, regardless of sex.

It's completely unfair on transmen to insist they only compete against biological males who have gone through male puberty.

It also doesn't work to say that people should compete in whichever category they choose (gender or biological sex), because that inevitably results in a Men's Category (biological males who have gone through male puberty and are not taking any drugs) and an Open Category (male people who have been through male puberty and may or may not be taking any drugs; female people who are taking effectively performance-enhancing drugs; and female people who have gone through female puberty and aren't taking anything).

It's fine to have an Open Category, but it would be bizarre have the Men's Category as the odd one out. Why would they need it?

Makes more sense to have a Women's Category (populated by biological females who have gone through female puberty and are not taking performance-enhancing drugs) and then an Open Category (populated by all the people getting a performance boost from hormones, be those naturally occurring or ingested).

But that would dump the transmen right back where we came in, of having to compete against biological men untrammelled by performance-reducing drugs.

It's completely unfair on the transmen.

It's always struck me as being the hole you could drive a tank through in the rhetoric around trans "inclusion" in sport. Only transwomen get included. Transmen get systematically disadvantaged and excluded from the top spots.

I'm delighted that transmen will get their own category to compete in.

OFGS apostrophe...

One of the reasons