Telegraph: "Exclusive: Boxing to introduce new transgender category"

[ResisterRex]

Seems no one is up for mixed-sex boxing. Whoever would've guessed?!

It would be amusing to watch Stonewall et al denounce this as "exclusionary" and "transphobic" but presumably they'd be well-advised to sit this one out.

www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2022/12/29/exclusive-boxing-introduce-new-transgender-category/

"Boxing will put out a call for transgender athletes to come forward in 2023 with the World Boxing Council looking to introduce a new category solely for trans fighters.

Mauricio Sulaiman, the president of the WBC, believes the sport needs to look closely at the issue for “safety and inclusion” reasons, revealing his plan to Telegraph Sport.
In an exclusive interview, Sulaiman says his proposal is that:
The WBC will next year issue a “global call” for trans athletes to come forward if they want to compete, with the aim of setting up their own separate league or tournament
Trans athletes will not be allowed to compete against non-trans fighters
The sport would look to adopt the “at birth” rule, meaning a trans fighter born a man would only be able to compete against a fellow trans fighter born a man"

You're honestly using "trans lobby"? Like the 'gay lobby' but 30 years later?

It's weird, I ask for decisions based on scientific evidence (per sport, as I always have), but people aren't interested in that and are gleeful that trans men and trans women who haven't been thru male puberty have been blanket banned in the panic.

People cheering on rank discrimination..now what could that be..

I think to be honest that any sensible male boxer would refuse to fight a female, no matter if said female has taken hormones. Because they'd be 1. at an unfair advantage, and many if not most sports people do care about fairness and 2. laying themselves open to being sued in the virtually inevitable event of injury.

uh oh someone's getting ready to lob the t word! That'll shut us all up.

The T word? Is it Toblerone?

Out on its own 😂

trans women who haven't been thru male puberty should be able to box against women.

You think children should be able to box adults?

I've got a white one open if anyone fancies a piece

sorry, that might come across wrong - I was reminded on the tv advert "toblerone, out on its own, triangular chocolate." For anyone who remembers it. Meant nothing by that - I'll get my coat!!!

I ask for decisions based on scientific evidence

EvilBee you are the one who denounced this story as an "unscientific ruling". It's not a ruling and it's based on science. You haven't explained or provided sources for your characterisation of the proposal as "unscientific".

But thanks for making sure the thread is active because I'm starting to think that it's posters like you that are propelling MNers to visit this board and google the petition about updating the Equality Act to make the characteristic of "sex" clear so it's biological sex. It's something that's especially relevant in boxing!!

Maybe a good "End of 2022" thread would be a hall of fame for all the valiant TRA posters who came on to MN FWR looking for a tear up, had a pop at everyone for being transphobic, sharing zero evidence in the process, and left in a self-righteous huff.

🤔Not tried a white one. I'll swap you for an almond Magnum.

Whilst doing the hi trans person here (which has the same effect on my twitchy eye as hi man here) please feel free to come into trans spaces (be polite)

and yes bee actually did that yesterday.

Someone should do a bingo card! We could just wait to call "house"

Have two chunks it's been a long week The normal one will never be quite "enough" ever again. Yeah it'll will be nice, but you'll be wishin it was the white one.

Ta, I'll stick it in the freezer for later.

@EvilBee

www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/guidelines/transgender

This enough evidence for you?

If they object to this it will be perfectly clear it’s about validation rather than participation

@EvilBee

equalityinsport.org/resources/index.html

More reading for you.

I don’t get how “we have created categories for trans people” is YOU’VE BANNED TRANS PEOPLE!!!!!!

I'll give this to you Evil, you will certainly take on the absolutely indefensible positions with a spiked goad enthusiasm.

And since you have been and done everything, I have no doubt that you have been a woman receiving knockout punches to the head from a trained male boxer. And as you have been a nurse for many years, I'm sure you have nursed women on neurological units with lifechanging traumatic brain injuries from violent attacks by men.

Funny isn't it that there were calls to ban boxing a while back becauseof the unmanageable health risks? Then suddenly it became a women's Olympic sport with (amazing) competitors like Nicola Adams, and it's the flavour of the month to have women punch each other. Fair enough, not my bag. But yes, men have a huge punch strength differential against women (ooh that's almost like... science?) and shouldn't have boxing bouts against them. Glad to see that has been ruled out.

I agree with EvilBee that there is a question mark on transwomen who have not gone through puberty, as it would be unsafe for then to compete with men who have gone through puberty. However, the number of boys who declare a transgender identity as a child, are put on puberty blockers before going through puberty, and who then become boxers must be vanishingly small. Given the tide is (hopefully) turning against children being prevented from going through puberty, I assume that the number of transwomen boxers in this category will go down even from this negligible number.

I am actually pretty excited with this one.

@EvilBee are you about to post links to studies that show that female brain nerve fibres strengthen with testosterone ?

Because that would be so brilliant. Thank you!!

Because, according to this person, Elizabeth Williams, a senior lecturer in biomedics at the university's college of engineering, she says:

"Recent research in the neurology field has reported that axons [nerve fibres] in women's brains are a lot thinner and they have fewer microtubules [hollow tubes that give shape to cells]."

"They suggest that, subject to the same external force, a woman's brain will have a higher risk of injury than a man's brain. Collecting objective data about how hard these players are hitting their head can help us develop strategies to limit brain injury."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51434749

Now, here is the results of that study.

cronfa.swan.ac.uk/Record/cronfa59621

But, please feel free to post your own links to dispute this woman. Because, you know.... she doesn't know anything.... obviously!

Or... are you going to tell us that concussive studies for rugby have absolutely no connection to boxing?

Because, I feel that is your next step.

EvilBee could offer us eggshell skulls defence, but I don't think that will suit the narrative.

If a person chooses to take a medical pathway that prevents them from competing in the sport of their choice, should that person be rewarded in competing in a category that is not meant for them?

What other conditions should this apply to?

Or, is the female category a category for females and those males who choose to undertake a particular medical treatment?

Yes, and born female transmen can't compete with women, either. So it really will need to be four classes to be safe and fair.

What science? Show me the science that (a) means exclusion of trans men is legitimate and that (b) means exclusion of trans women who have not been thru male puberty is legitimate.

If the sports authorities were subject to the Equality Act then this could be absolutely struck down as disproportionate in the UK courts. Hopefully it will be challenged elsewhere.

To the sillies who want trans men boxing cisgender women, then go look up Mack Beggs..weirdly enough those sex hormones that you like to pretend do nothing mean that trans guys would have a definite advantage.

With regards to your final paragraph, the petition won't do anything anyway - even if it does manage to somehow get past the line..and even if they do decide to debate, you'll just get a load of MPs standing up being supportive of trans ppl and a few Tories and Alba MPs going off topic, like the last couple of times.