SNP MSPs will be whipped to vote in favour of gender recognition reforms

[Criticycle]

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-msps-will-be-whipped-to-vote-in-favour-of-gender-recognition-reforms-3894529

Nicola Sturgeon is now going to force members to vote in favour of gender recognition reform.

I feel like she does not understand that this is such a wedge issue that this might cripple the SNP for decades to come.

And now is where I bow out.

So you have no evidence that male people who identify as another sex already any less likely to harm women than any other men? Didn't think so. So any harm done to women is just collateral damage then?

I think next time there is a thread complaining that Mumsnet is such an echo chambeeeeeerrrrrrr, I will direct people to this thread.

This literally happens every time, it's actually quite frustrating.

'And now is where I bow out' indeed.

I'm not even disappointed anymore. It seems to be a law of nature. As soon as anyone starts sharing data or hard facts, it's suddenly time to ice a cake.

This claim also betrays such ignorance into predators and their behaviours.

Transvestism is one of the most common paraphilias found in murderers, rapists, pedophiles and other sexual predators.

Do a Google Scholar search, there's enough research on this.

I wonder if the assumption here is that only properly manly men commit such crimes? Along the lines of "no self-respecting man would ever dress in women's clothing, coz that's so demeaning" etc etc

To be fair, I have yet to find a proponent of self-id who is nearly half as well informed of all the issues as the women who I'm campaigning with. Which is not that easy in any case as they've carefully looked at, read about and researched this from a lot of angles, which takes a lot of time and effort. Years.

That we are willing to invest because sex is the basis on which women's rights are founded and anything that weakens that basis - like laws, policies and regulations based on the self-declaration of sex - harms us.

Actually there is another issue which is the issue of physicality. Men tend to be bigger than women and even when not bigger, they are almost always stronger and faster. Even if you think being male/the penis in itself isn’t the problem, the fact remains that if and when a male is aggressive, if he attacks a woman she will probably be at much greater risk than vice versa. With sex attacks, he can overpower and threaten her in most cases.

it’s like dogs and cats - they’re not all bad, and cats can attack cats and dogs too, and a nice, well-trained dog might not be dangerous. But dogs are generally bigger and more aggressive and have a bigger and more powerful bite. That means if/when there is an altercation, cats are the ones in danger. So that’s why at a kennels, you don’t put dogs in with cats. Or would you?

when there’s a male in a female space, I feel anxious and guarded because whether he’s dangerous or not, I know that if he is, he can really hurt me. On top of that, I know he’s the type of man who wants to be there and either doesn’t care about women being uncomfortable, or actively enjoys it. Many TW make clear they find it a turn-on which is extra alarming and upsetting. That type of male really does not just want to pee. They want to feel validated and powerful and/or masturbate.

if you “believe in self ID for everything”, do you believe in it for adults identifying as children, fully abled people identifying as disabled, being able to identify as a different height or weight? What about race? If not why not? Because it seems to me that some of these things are more similar and changeable and arbitrary than the different sexes are. If you don’t think it’s fine for adults to dominate children’s sports, or join the cubs, or for able-bodied people to be in the paralympics, etc, that means you can see there are risks and unfairnesses involved and that it would be insulting and sometimes dangerous for the people being impersonated and appropriated. Can you explain why sex is different?

Prisons aren't a first resort.

You have to either do something really bad, or be really prolific to get into one. A bit of shoplifting doesn't cut it (below £100 most forces won't even turn up).

Meet "Katie". Multiple sexual attacks on children, death threats to the mother of a victim, breach of probation, deleting Internet history - you name it, "she's" done it and is still not locked up.
metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

What's the phrase TRAs like? "Look at who you are aligning yourself with"

Transvestism is one of the most common paraphilias found in murderers, rapists, pedophiles and other sexual predators.

Paraphilias are almost exclusively found in males. And they tend to cluster (those with one paraphilia often have more than one).

Actually there is another issue which is the issue of physicality. Men tend to be bigger than women and even when not bigger, they are almost always stronger and faster.

And only women risk pregnancy.

Yes @beachcitygirl the toxic masculinity is the problem. The toxic masculinity that enables males to think they are entitled to run roughshod over womens boundaries and access their spaces when women have said they want and require single sex spaces? As a feminist, (apparently), why are you putting the feelings and desires of males over the females you allegedly support?

why are you so invested in making all spaces mixed sex even though this will negatively affect women. I thought you were a feminist?

Secondly I would like to know what safe spaces y'all speak of? I don't know of any. Men rape and attack with impunity everywhere.

@beachcitygirl well women's refuges used to be pretty safe. Their locations were generally kept a secret and the door would be locked to men.

Not any more though, the aforementioned violent sex offender "Katie" got accommodated in a women's refuge after conviction.

'This is where I bow out'

😂 I'm sure it is. I see you continuing the proud tradition of TRAs to storm off at the slightest hint of any logic or facts

Ooh did I miss a flounce?. Awww I love a good flounce…

I do believe in self-ID for everything.

@beachcitygirl yet earlier in the thread you said that a GRC should be a precondition of access to a women's prison. Or are you merely advocating that GRCs become as simple to obtain as a covid jab (turn up and give your name)?

It's always the same.

I'm male. I'm aware that many women do fear strangers of my sex. Therefore I try to avoid making them feel uncomfortable (walking close behind them at night for example).

I don't take this personally, I know that it's impossible to tell whether someone is a rapist until it is too late.

By the way, have a read through the threads on the Relationships board. In many cases, women have good reason to fear their own husbands, never mind a complete stranger.

I strongly disagree with women being sent to prison… I do believe in self-ID for everything

Ummmm…

not sure you thought this through?

I know @beachcitygirl has gone, but...

if that predator doesn't have a grc then male estate.
If that predator does have a grc then female estate.

And then:

The proposed changing of the grc to GRA changes nothing other than admin.

Changing the GRA to self-ID means that any rapist can get a GRC.
@beachcitygirl thinks that any male criminal with a GRC should go to a women's prison. How is that 'nothing but admin'?

Are there any TRAs who can actually put a logical argument together?

I think it’s been proven blue hair dye destroys logic cells @OldCrone its the only reason I can think of that so many TRA can’t string an argument together to save themselves.

I do believe in self-ID for everything. It's how we already do most things.

Really? If you were having an operation would you prefer your surgeon to be someone who self-IDs as a surgeon or someone who has been to medical school and is properly qualified?

I’m off to self ID as the prime minister. Anyone else wanna be in my cabinet? You don’t have to be an MP, just identify as one.

I try to avoid making them feel uncomfortable

Thanks for that, by the way. I appreciate it when men do this. And yes, we do notice.

I wouldn't have known that it was an issue, were it not for threads on here.

I do believe that no trans woman or man should be judged by the action of others in their community- exactly the same as any other minority.

I do think all services that house vulnerable people should have strong safeguards principles in place. I just don't believe those should be exclusionary to people who need them just because of their gender.

Out of interest what is it you mean by safeguarding?

John Worboys is a man, responsible for the rape of over 100 women. We don't judge all men by the action of Worboys. However because men like Worboys exist we provide separate prison facilities for female people to keep them safe from serial rapists. This is safeguarding. If Worboys was to change their "gender" (and under the new Scottish system this would simply be a matter of signing a declaration) and a straightforward prison policy of "GRC = send to female estate" existed, that would create a massive loophole that would potentially be exploited by the likes of Worboys, wouldn't it? And it would also be an incentive for men who like to rape women to declare themselves to have a "woman gender" wouldn't it?

I do believe in self-ID for everything. It's how we already do most things. Never shown my birth certificate to get in a loo yet. When I tick a form for anything no one asks for proof. Etc.

When people go to prison self ID is not necessary. The prison authorities will have all the "proof" already available including the fact that a person's birth certificate has been amended to hide their actual sex.

Secondly I would like to know what safe spaces y'all speak of? I don't know of any. Men rape and attack with impunity everywhere.

Men (including transwomen) cannot attack women with impunity where they are not permitted to go. This very simple idea was well understood by most people until very recently.

Safe spaces for women have relied on a sense of decency, respect, and fear of stigma/arrest. Of course a man could barge in and rape or harass women, or pass convincingly as a woman and rape someone, but those cases wer rare. Just as someone can break into your home, or convincingly pretend to be meter reader or plumber to get into your home. But historically, anyone doing that would know they were breaking the law/doing wrong, and would be reported if suspected.

when a man or boy strolling into a women’s/girls’ toilet or change area could be challenged and get into trouble, that would put off 99% of them from doing it, and the other 1% would be challenged.

the danger arises from a cultural shift, demanded by TRAs, that no no-one is allowed to even question or challenge the man. The man/boy can just say he’s a woman/girl (or NB, often used by men who have no “feminjne” appearance) and then anyone who doubts that is the criminal, and that’s extremely handy as it can’t be disproved. It’s basically a free pass for any male who likes to harass, intimidate, attack or rape women and women can’t do anything about it. Staff can’t do anything as they’re scared to lose their jobs, and the police are on side so they arrest the woman.

it’s misogynist, rapist heaven. It shits on women. And that’s one of the reasons it’s been so enthusiastically taken up by a patriarchal society.

it’s like saying naughty criminals aren’t allowed to break into your house and take your stuff, but at the same time, anyone can just say they’re you, and then you have to let them in and help themselves to whatever they like. If you say “but I’m me, you’re not’ you’ll get arrested for hate crime because it might hurt their feelings.

of course burglaries and deception occasionally happened before. But now anyone can just stroll in unchallenged on their own say-so and if you don’t like it, you’re the criminal.

can you see how now the numbers of break-ins and burglaries will skyrocket? Oh but you’re not even allowed to call them that, bigot.

As Orwell said, “If the Party say 2+2=5 then 2+2=5”

”If Sturgeon says men can be women when science says they can’t then men can be women!”