SNP MSPs will be whipped to vote in favour of gender recognition reforms

[Criticycle]

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-msps-will-be-whipped-to-vote-in-favour-of-gender-recognition-reforms-3894529

Nicola Sturgeon is now going to force members to vote in favour of gender recognition reform.

I feel like she does not understand that this is such a wedge issue that this might cripple the SNP for decades to come.

Meh - when an ideology and proposals fly in the face of safety, safeguarding, democracy and the rights of women and children, the only way to impose them is via enforcement. Every dictator in history knew that and we're seeing it demonstrated in Scotland at the moment.

I think Sturgeon does understand how divisive this issue is. I also think she doesn’t really care a jot about trans people.

one of the problems for the SNP has always been ‘what difference will it make?’ - why should people vote for independence when it won’t really change their lives? What the SNP is trying to do, with this and other issues, is make Scotland seem like a different country to England, with different laws, rules, morals, systems, etc. Sturgeon believes this is an issue she can exploit to prove that Scotland is different and needs to leave the UK.

Women and trans people are pawns ready to be sacrificed for her ambition to be Scotland’s first Prime Minister (or even better, President).

Very disappointed to see Scottish Labour also whipping their MSPs to vote for the bill. Expected it of the SNP but Labour should have had a free vote.

Do they do one- two- three-line whips in Scotland? Talk of 'losing the whip' implies this is a three-line whip so further away from a conscience vote than a one or two.

Which implies they REALLY want to live or die by this.

If it was really about being different, you’d think they’d try to find policies that were both different and popular. Shouldn’t be that difficult, given the current shitshow in Westminster. Instead, they’re accelerating Scotland into an abyss of misogyny. But then Scotland was traditionally much more sexist than the south. I suspect it’s just been hidden behind a facade of modernity in recent years. I think that might have a bearing here too.

Not surprising but still depressing. It does show why no debate was the only way to get gender ideology out into the real world. A properly open and democratic process would have put the brakes on it staight away. Unfortunately Scotland under the SNP doesn't feel like a place where democracy is valued.

But then Scotland was traditionally much more sexist than the south.

I've found though that it's less misogynistic in the main. Maybe it's just the people I know!

If you have to threaten and force your MPs to vote for it

If you have to terrorise and arrest your people to force compliance

If you have to tell endless bald face lies and desperately avoid justifying it or discussing it

You are probably doing a really shit thing, and what's more, it's something that will be undone the very second your grip on power slips, because obviously it was never wanted or the right thing to do in the first place.

Of course. But it is a cult and Sturgeon is the leader of the Inquisition in Scotland

QUITE RIGHT THEY WILL BE WHIPPED

Women and trans people are pawns ready to be sacrificed for her ambition to be Scotland’s first Prime Minister (or even better, President).

Dream on. She's after a cosy job at the UN.

This issue will implode the SNP and the independence campaign. Not that the SNP seem to give a hoot about the latter any more.

But then Scotland was traditionally much more sexist than the south.

The hell is this nonsense?

This.

Sturgeon believes this is an issue she can exploit to prove that Scotland is different and needs to leave the UK.

Kind of. Many people suspect the SNP is far too comfortable running Scotland, taking good wages, and living in perpetual faux opposition to actually aim for independence.

SNP always have to vote on party lines - it's not the party for independent thinkers (ironically)

Disappointed by Labour doing the same (but surprised they need to, my Labour SNPs are rabidly Pro self ID)

Is there any chance that some of them will rebel? I'm not in Scotland or Scottish, just an interested observer so I don't know the characters.

I’m surprised at Labour. I had thought they were becoming more sensible under the current leader.

i don’t think Scotland is more sexist but I think it can be more socially conservative.

I can’t see how there will be any winners from this bill in it’s current form.

I live in Scotland the general recognition reform has made me terrified to live here, The level of almost dictatorship like demagoguery that they expect is honestly terrifying, Scottish independence used to be something that I was proud of and now I have become terrified of it

Enormous sadly not. Richard Leonard’s response to the GRR has to be seen to be believed. 😡

twitter.com/scot_feminists/status/1585274445027053569?s=61&t=GA_97sTFOzCElvJ_GoKDbQ

I guess, In theory, things would improve (politically) if / once independence happens. There would no longer be a need for the SNP to exist any longer in it’s current form so it’s authoritarian grip would reduce and other parties would grow in strength. It must be worrying though, in the mean time, the damage that a one-party state can do with no real opposition to keep it in check. I wonder how many SNP voters will be voting against their conscience with this vote.

Richard Leonard - he says he’s listened, I wonder who he listened to?

I agree. The bit that worries me is can the current SNP be trusted to run an interim independent Scotland as a new poltical landscape forms.

This is not a GRA issue. (Not specifically). SNP MPs and MSPs are not allowed to ever deviate from the party line. No abstaining, no voting against the party. Ever - whatever the issue. Vote against the party line, lose the whip and be removed from the party.

It's toxic, and part of the reason why Scotland is in such a state.

Should also add, Anas Sarwar has ignored appeals from concerned parents to meet with them, as has Jackie Baillie. Scottish Labour are just as bad as the SNP on this issue.

Scotland under the SNP dictatorship is a genuinely frightening place. ( yes,I live here). The husband and wife team of Sturgeon and Murrell control the party,the media and many public bodies. When things like the resignation of the CE from the new National bank,complaints of lack of transparency from National Auditors,and mass resignation of those investigating Covid malpractice ALL go unchallenged, you know the party is corrupt to the core. They make the Tories look clean