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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

SNP MSPs will be whipped to vote in favour of gender recognition reforms

329 replies

Criticycle · 26/10/2022 20:17

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-msps-will-be-whipped-to-vote-in-favour-of-gender-recognition-reforms-3894529

Nicola Sturgeon is now going to force members to vote in favour of gender recognition reform.

I feel like she does not understand that this is such a wedge issue that this might cripple the SNP for decades to come.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Signalbox · 28/10/2022 14:41

ArabellaScott · 28/10/2022 14:29

You also forgot the gap between 'trans' and 'form'.

It's very important. Report for re-education, pls.

Thank you for calling me out. I’d like to sincerely apologise to any previously predatory (but now trans formed) trans gender individuals who may be reading this and feeling hurt by my thoughtless comments. I know that I can’t take back any offence or harm or hurt that I’ve caused but I will use this as an opportunity to re-educate myself properly on the matter so I don’t make the same mistakes in the future.

ArabellaScott · 28/10/2022 16:47

In great genderist tradition, I see your apology.

And damn you further for it.

Say fifty 'TWAW, TMAM, NBANB', and pay £25 to a crowdfunder for hairdye.

Waitwhat23 · 28/10/2022 17:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Waitwhat23 · 28/10/2022 17:30

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 13:55

@DdraigGoch if that predator doesn't have a grc then male estate.
If that predator does have a grc then female estate.

In either situation care should
Be taken around all people put into prison & effective safeguards in place to protect others in prison.

I'm not a huge fan of prisons as a first choice solution.

Ooh, I did laugh when I saw the deletion message. I'll try again without the (truthful) bit I assume you objected to.

The SPS operate under a self id position, advised as they have been by Scottish Trans Alliance -

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2022/04/06/the-sps-review-on-trans-prisoners-a-chance-to-get-policy-making-in-scottish-prisons-back-on-track/

No GRC needed.

Unsurprisingly -

archive.ph/2022.10.04-232359/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-scottish-trans-prisoners-changed-gender-after-convictions-pftqbbhg6

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/anger-trans-inmates-revert-males-25840252 (this is also in The Times but I don't have a share token).

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 18:38

@Waitwhat23
I didn't object to your post. I wonder if whoever did will cop to that?

Haven't been online since earlier as organising Halloween outfits. I will converse with anyone on this that isn't a total bigot. So just don't see the point slinging insults back and forwards.

Signalbox · 28/10/2022 18:58

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 13:55

@DdraigGoch if that predator doesn't have a grc then male estate.
If that predator does have a grc then female estate.

In either situation care should
Be taken around all people put into prison & effective safeguards in place to protect others in prison.

I'm not a huge fan of prisons as a first choice solution.

With a prison policy like this, doesn't it become impossible to argue that making it easier for male born people to obtain a GRC has no impact on them being able to access women's single-sex spaces? It is often argued by TRAs (and currently by those in favour of the GR bill in Scotland) that having a GRC would never affect a TW's ability to access single-sex spaces for women?

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 19:15

@Signalbox

Well first it's not policy because I'm
not a policy maker.

If I were women wouldn't be in prison in scotland because I strongly disagree with women being sent to prison. The overwhelming majority are there because of harm caused to them by the patriarchal violent hedgemonic society in which we live.

I was asked a question which I answered.

I used the grc because gra bill hasn't as yet been brought into law.

Did you ever give a fuck about women in prison before the trans moral panic. ?
I did.
I doubt you'll be honest with me, but do be honest with yourself.

I do believe that no trans woman or man should be judged by the action of others in their community- exactly the same as any other minority.

I do believe in self-ID for everything. It's how we already do most things. Never shown my birth certificate to get in a loo yet. When I tick a form for anything no one asks for proof. Etc

Secondly I would like to know what safe spaces y'all speak of? I don't know of any. Men rape and attack with impunity everywhere.

I do think all services that house vulnerable people should have strong safeguards principles in place. I just don't believe those should be exclusionary to people who need them just because of their gender.

The proposed changing of the grc to GRA changes nothing other than admin. I don't admire the grc process, it's long over medicated, old fashioned and ridiculous. What exactly does it mean to live as a woman (wording from grc)

But I recognise that trans people exist and deserve the same human rights as myself.

Therefore the grc

Predators will still be predators no matter what they wear or what sex they tick on a form or what they do or what name they have & they should be (as all predators are) subject to the law.

Best regards to all. Don't even bother @ me with blind bigotry or insults. I will happily discuss with anyone with concerns but mis gendering & transphobia is at complete odds with feminist principles.

CIs men are the problem & that is because of the way babies are stuck into gendered boxes from birth & there are historical issues that will take decades to unpick, maybe more.

Reinforcing gendered cliche's like beardy blokes or men in frocks, is fucking ridiculous & anyone spouting that shite is best ignored.

nilsmousehammer · 28/10/2022 19:20

Yeah that's the you can't care about women being raped in prison because.... because.... because...... and a whole list of things you are allowed to care about.

No thanks, not following the squirrels. No males in female prisons. Ever. No exceptions. The problems of male prisoners in the male estate will have to be solved in the male estate or in designated specialist TQ+ or vulnerable prisoner units. Not difficult.

334bu · 28/10/2022 19:29

Cis men are the problem.

Unfortunately this is a falsehood. The statement should read male people, no matter their gender identity, are the problem. Unless of course beachcitygirl you have crime statistics which show that male people who don't identify as men are different from any other men?

Smilelesstalkmore · 28/10/2022 19:36

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 19:15

@Signalbox

Well first it's not policy because I'm
not a policy maker.

If I were women wouldn't be in prison in scotland because I strongly disagree with women being sent to prison. The overwhelming majority are there because of harm caused to them by the patriarchal violent hedgemonic society in which we live.

I was asked a question which I answered.

I used the grc because gra bill hasn't as yet been brought into law.

Did you ever give a fuck about women in prison before the trans moral panic. ?
I did.
I doubt you'll be honest with me, but do be honest with yourself.

I do believe that no trans woman or man should be judged by the action of others in their community- exactly the same as any other minority.

I do believe in self-ID for everything. It's how we already do most things. Never shown my birth certificate to get in a loo yet. When I tick a form for anything no one asks for proof. Etc

Secondly I would like to know what safe spaces y'all speak of? I don't know of any. Men rape and attack with impunity everywhere.

I do think all services that house vulnerable people should have strong safeguards principles in place. I just don't believe those should be exclusionary to people who need them just because of their gender.

The proposed changing of the grc to GRA changes nothing other than admin. I don't admire the grc process, it's long over medicated, old fashioned and ridiculous. What exactly does it mean to live as a woman (wording from grc)

But I recognise that trans people exist and deserve the same human rights as myself.

Therefore the grc

Predators will still be predators no matter what they wear or what sex they tick on a form or what they do or what name they have & they should be (as all predators are) subject to the law.

Best regards to all. Don't even bother @ me with blind bigotry or insults. I will happily discuss with anyone with concerns but mis gendering & transphobia is at complete odds with feminist principles.

CIs men are the problem & that is because of the way babies are stuck into gendered boxes from birth & there are historical issues that will take decades to unpick, maybe more.

Reinforcing gendered cliche's like beardy blokes or men in frocks, is fucking ridiculous & anyone spouting that shite is best ignored.

Christ, where to start?

Cis men are the problem

What is the difference between a cis man and a trans woman? Apart from their 'identity'? Can you provide the evidence that transwomen commit crimes at the same rate as women and not the same rate as men? At what point in transition does a transwoman cease to be in the high risk sex class of male and become part of the low risk sex class of female?

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 19:37

@334bu the penis itself is NOT the problem. As feminists have been saying for decades.

Abuse and violence and rape is a choice. That's why a lot of us marry and live with decent men & boys.

Because the penis is not the problem. The male sex is not the problem.

The gendered hedgemonic toxic masculinity is the problem &'the way to break that down is by dismantling it - not reinforcing it.

Smilelesstalkmore · 28/10/2022 19:38

I do believe that no trans woman or man should be judged by the action of others in their community- exactly the same as any other minority.

So you don't think women should have any single sex spaces? That everywhere should be mixed sex: prisons, refuges, changing rooms, hospital wards? Otherwise it's 'judging all men by the actions of others in their community'?

Smilelesstalkmore · 28/10/2022 19:39

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 19:37

@334bu the penis itself is NOT the problem. As feminists have been saying for decades.

Abuse and violence and rape is a choice. That's why a lot of us marry and live with decent men & boys.

Because the penis is not the problem. The male sex is not the problem.

The gendered hedgemonic toxic masculinity is the problem &'the way to break that down is by dismantling it - not reinforcing it.

So again, you believe that all spaces should just be mixed sex?

ArabellaScott · 28/10/2022 19:46

The male sex is not the problem.

98% of sexual assaults and rape are committed by males.

ArabellaScott · 28/10/2022 19:47

90% of homicides worldwide are committed by males.

www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/global-study-on-homicide.html

Waitwhat23 · 28/10/2022 19:48

Is anyone else sick to the back teeth of the 'oh well, rapists gonna rape, amirite?' argument? Doubtless accompanied with a shrug.

Women used as human shields essentially.

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 19:48

God it's like talking to a brick wall.

Aren't you all terrified of your sons, husbands & brothers ☠️ they're men.

No, you're not. Because the fact that they are male is not a problem.

Being born male does not make anyone a rapist.

Hedgemonic toxic masculinity is the issue

ArabellaScott · 28/10/2022 19:49

Being born male does not make anyone a rapist.

Not all males are rapists, but all rapists are male.

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2022 19:51

ArabellaScott · 28/10/2022 19:46

The male sex is not the problem.

98% of sexual assaults and rape are committed by males.

It's really quite odd that anyone can apparently assert this statistic is purely a product of nurture and not also of nature.

Smilelesstalkmore · 28/10/2022 19:56

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 19:48

God it's like talking to a brick wall.

Aren't you all terrified of your sons, husbands & brothers ☠️ they're men.

No, you're not. Because the fact that they are male is not a problem.

Being born male does not make anyone a rapist.

Hedgemonic toxic masculinity is the issue

You haven't answered my question: do you believe that all spaces, including prisons and refuges, should just be mixed sex?

Should my husband, who is absolutely not a danger to women, be allowed in a female changing room?

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2022 19:59

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 19:48

God it's like talking to a brick wall.

Aren't you all terrified of your sons, husbands & brothers ☠️ they're men.

No, you're not. Because the fact that they are male is not a problem.

Being born male does not make anyone a rapist.

Hedgemonic toxic masculinity is the issue

Don't be daft. Obviously NAMALT. Most men are are fine.
But a significant subset aren't.

Oh.. and maybe don't use words like 'hedgemonic' (sic)if you can't spell them, makes you look a bit pretentious (especially when followed by quips about brick walls)

334bu · 28/10/2022 20:14

Hedgemonic toxic masculinity is the issue

So you have evidence, crime statistics etc, that males who don't identify as men are free of this toxic masculinity?

beachcitygirl · 28/10/2022 20:17

@ErrolTheDragon I'm dyslexic. But if your quip about spelling makes you fell better 👏🏻
And now is where I bow out.

Waitwhat23 · 28/10/2022 20:17

ErrolTheDragon · 28/10/2022 19:59

Don't be daft. Obviously NAMALT. Most men are are fine.
But a significant subset aren't.

Oh.. and maybe don't use words like 'hedgemonic' (sic)if you can't spell them, makes you look a bit pretentious (especially when followed by quips about brick walls)

Show quote history

It's also really, really giving me an urge to watch the Red Dwarf 'Timeslides' episode.

Smilelesstalkmore · 28/10/2022 20:24

And now is where I bow out.

Just at the point where you are being asked questions that you can't answer.

Textbook.