SNP MSPs will be whipped to vote in favour of gender recognition reforms

[Criticycle]

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-msps-will-be-whipped-to-vote-in-favour-of-gender-recognition-reforms-3894529

Nicola Sturgeon is now going to force members to vote in favour of gender recognition reform.

I feel like she does not understand that this is such a wedge issue that this might cripple the SNP for decades to come.

'ill thought, ill considered' - Gosal talking about her personal feelings on the problems raised by religious observances & how this law will encourage women to self exclude.

Now talking about Rape Crisis and female only care.

@beachcitygirl

No. It's because the problem is men. Cisgender men.

Not women. Not trans women & not men dressed up as women seeking to cause harm.

Cis gender Men attack women with impunity regularly & consistently and usually their wives/partners/daughters/flatmates & friends.

An administrative issue won't stop that.

The wholesale (sometimes wilful) misunderstanding of the gra and its admirable policy.

"What women is so enamoured of her own oppression that she cannot see her heel print upon another's face. " Audre Lorde

""I earnestly wish to see the distinction of the sexes confounded & gone from society" Mary Wollstonecraft

Shona Robison winding up now for SNP

No. It's because the problem is men. Cisgender men.

What is the difference between a 'cisgender man' and a transwoman?

Beachcitygirl, there’s an awful lot of transwomen that must have been falsely accused of sex attacks if only cis-men attack women.

I’m on catch up, credit to John Mason.

An administrative issue won't stop that.

Who said it would?

But why would you create legal loopholes that would give men even more potential opportunity to harm women?

Sex is a protected characteristic in the EA. In certain situations, sex is relevant and matters, and women deserve protections and rights from men. If you change the law so that anyone from the male sex class can legally identify into the female sex class and be seen as 'female' under the 'sex' part of the EA, then that is a problem. Isn't it?

That’s not the question I’m asking you.

I asked you to define what you think ‘living in woman gender’ means in practical terms as no one in the Scottish Government seems to know yet if a man makes a false declaration that he is ‘living in woman gender’ he could go to prison for up to two years. So what, exactly, is he declaring that he is doing?

You don’t seem to know either?

Ash Regan, who has served as SNP minister for community safety since 2018, said that her conscience would not allow her to vote in favour of the legislation, which would introduce a gender self-identification system for Scotland. She has therefore resigned and taken a £30,000 drop in salary. Good for her I say. Standing up to the tyrant.

MPs and I assume MSPs are elected to represent their constituents including those who did not vote for them. This means they may sometimes vote against something that their party proposes. They may sometimes vote against something that they in principle agree with because it is poorly drafted, doesn't do what it is meant do or other reasons.

MPs/MSPs are not meant to be drones of the party.

Voting now.

Yes: 88 No: 33

4 abstentions

@AlwaysTawnyOwl that may be what you were asking. (You weren't clear) but before I inform you. Before I waste my time and yours.
I will ask this? Are you arguing that trans people shouldn't be allowed to exist at all?

Now that gender recognition reform stage one has passed, I'm going to start making plans to leave the country

I don't want my daughter's and my husband to live in a country like this where are my daughter's sex based rights have been eroded.

I used to be proud to be Scottish but this feeling of Pride has been eroded more and more as this is gone on

31 Tory MSPs in Scotland.

Will be interesting to see how the votes went.

Why isn’t sky news reporting this?

Are you trans, beach?

Nobody is debating whether or not someone exists. You can disagree with people and they still exist. Flat earthers exist. Creationists exist. I do not believe that trans women are literally women, but they still exist.

We are debating whether your internal sense of self and belief in a particular ideology that prioritises feelings over material bodily reality is enough to reorient society.

Agree, powerful.

I am struggling with the fact that as a labour voting person only the conservatives are speaking to me on this issue.

Because only the Conservatives believe in what they’re doing on this issue.

This exist thing - are people seriously saying that there are male people who are going to have existential crises if they are not permitted to exclude and distress females in female places?

@WanOvaryKenobi

No. I'm not trans. I am willing to discuss the issue but not with those who would deny that trans people have a right to a peaceful authentic existence.
If the pp doesn't accept GRA reform as appropriate I would like to know if she supports previous system of grc or if she's just an out & out bigot before I waste my time conversing.

Also @WanOvaryKenobi

Sense of self - interesting.

What makes you - you? Have you managed to solve the mind-body problem?

Do tell.

Did I spy Nicola slinking into the chamber at the end? I hope this is covered on the news tonight. I am doubly depressed because I've just noticed that LGBT Youth Scotland have finally wheedled their way into my child's school and they are going to throw good money at an organisation that's still pointing children to Mermaids and Stonewall. I'm f##king livid.

The first thing is that a right to a peaceful, authentic existence does not necessitate distressing and excluding females. That isn't peaceful or authentic, it's male supremacism.

The second thing is that female people have a right to a peaceful and authentic existence too, equal to the consideration given to TQ+ identified male people.

This cannot be done by forcing male people into female spaces and saying this is lovely, progressive and peacefully authentic, because it obviously doesn't work and it never will work.

Third spaces would work. Mutual respect. Mutual tolerance. All needs equally met and respected. That kind of thing.

The third thing is that an existential crisis if someone will not do what you demand to their disadvantage, does not mean the other person should just give into you. It means the person needs help with coping better with boundaries and their emotions.