Tory meltdown hurting our chances to turn Labour round?

[teawamutu]

Something I'm worrying about - the Tory shitshow is so comprehensive it's looking like Labour just have to hang on until the next election and step into government. Doesn't give them much incentive to listen to women, does it?

I hope I'm wrong but it's on my mind.

Anyone who looked at the claim would know it was a load of shite. Did they know what a woman is when they announced their Self ID policy? When they wrote genderwoo into legistlation? When they put men in women's jails. When they stood at the Despatch Box and said TWAW & TMAM wrt a Maternity Bill? When PM Johnson refused to say that only women have a cervix?

It was nothing but Tory spin and if anyone is insulted that I pointed it out, tough. They'd be better working out why they were so gullible in the first place.

That's not evidence of anything!

Your username is very apt.

This was your claim @TooBigForMyBoots

And anyone who used the lie "At least the Tories know what a woman is", was repeating a piece of Tory spin, dreamt up by HQ and put out by shills.

Where is your evidence of that?

<expects more waffle>

@TooBigForMyBoots you didn’t answer my questions. Self ID is not current Tory policy but it is labours.

I don’t think it’s helpful to the discussion calling women here gullible, any more than it would to call your behaviour nasty as fuck and stupid. I mean, do you think you’re helping Labour change their minds or the women voting Tory? What about your style of campaigning and the impacts of that? Because you don’t come across well at all. I would be convinced by nothing you say based on how you say it and the insults you use.

...do you think you're helping Labour change their minds or the women voting Tory?

I'm not trying to help Labour do anything. Women will vote for whoever they like. But don't say you're doing it to protect or help women. The Tories have destroyed our rights and done massive damage to women in the 12years they've been in power. If you can't see that, that's on you. I'm not going to make you feel better about it.

Anyone who repeated the lie "at least the Tories know what a woman is" was either gullible or paid. Strengthen your political shark cage.

@TooBigForMyBoots so you’re here having a go at women for doing things you claim aren’t ‘helping the cause’ but then admit you’re doing nothing and have no intention of doing anything and aren’t interested in this at all.

The tories do know what a woman is, so do Labour. One side is generally happy individually and officially to state what one is and that they intend to uphold the equality act and Labour wants to go harder than Tories ever have or have said they would. They have even expelled women who want to debate their policy on this.

I think you’re better off focusing on actually doing something to help rather than telling other women what to do and say and calling them names.

Women will vote for whoever they like.

Oh they will? But your objection here is because you don’t want women here telling other women to vote Tory. What’s the problem if they vote for whoever they like anyway? I mean your posts are pretty strange and don’t join up. Seems like you just don’t want anyone here talking politics or influencing others in any way. How do you think people decide on who they’re voting for if nobody is allowed to discuss the issues?

Completely agree OP. Labour will sweep in with all the TRA bollocks and claim to have a mandate for selfID.
Starmer gave some speech last night to Pink News saying he wants to uphold the Equality Act "including single-sex spaces" and make it work better or some such woolly shit. If sex becomes codified as gender which it is now in Ireland, single sex spaces under Labour will mean fuck all.
Don't expect my X. I know the Tories are shit and I want them gone. It's for Labour to convince me not for me to Be Kind. Again.

Was that deleted post just repeating that others may be paid? Seems odd it can only go in one direction.

Anyway those trying to stifle discussion don’t bother.

Lachlan Harris on Twitter claims that Labour is watering down its language.
Not convinced myself

twitter.com/lachlan_edi/status/1582964569055514625?s=46&t=e23RZgFUXBxBNRCnRgIIeg

He also said this. Have to agree with Sarah here: it doesn't fill me with much confidence.

I am.

Lachlan Harris is an ex-advisor to the Labour party and says he's seen documents that encourage him. He's also rightly commended the women who have worked so hard within the party to get them to this stage.
The evidence is there, in his tweets. The language is watered down. That's why the TRAs are not happy with Starmer's speech yesterday and they're still demanding for Rosie Duffield to be sacked.

It's looking very likely that we'll see a Labour Government soon. Whatever lies are put out by the Conservatives will make little difference. What will make the difference is staying to shape policy.
The current difficulties of the Conservative party is what happens when you let a single issue take over and drive the grown ups from the room.

Of course language can be watered down if a party finally recognises, since 2019, the general view is not in their side.

They need to be clear what their policies will be still. Starmer has fudged language but that is not useful to us.

We can’t decipher his hedging waffle for him, we need clarity.

Yep. It was merely a tongue in cheek refutation of the accusations made by a previous poster!

Which rather demonstrates how authoritarian the left has become…

Dissent, jokes, pushback?

Quick, get the clipboard out and report to the authorities!

It reminds me of when Cartman briefly became a South Park police officer 😁

see also: Billy Bragg.

You won't get the kind of clarity you desire from any politician. Policy for all parties is still being formed.

If people resign from the party and refuse to engage, they can hardly complain when policy is formed without them. That's why so many GC Labour members refused to be swayed by the "Labour Losing Women" campaign. They've achieved a great deal.
Refusing to engage with a party that, right now, is looking almost certain to form the next Government is foolhardy.

No, the post was deleted for Troll hunting me. I did not troll hunt, I pointed out that this forum has been the target of Tory shills spreading Tory lies eg. "at least the Conservatives know what a woman is".

If you believe that the Tories don't send shills here you are gullible.

I'm not a Labour member, I'm a possible Labour voter.

I first heard 'work is being done behind closed doors' in 2016. It's 2022.

Not much point them in trying to infer from ‘softening language’ on snapshots on Twitter then.

Starmer may be realising that Labour is not in favour with most on this issue (finally) or still trying to placate TRA. At some point he’s going to have to address the issue and annoy one camp. I assume in a manifesto for a GE if any sense.

Whatever. I’ve been here long enough to know which posters I know and appreciate.

And I bet Labour do too.

but not the sort of women who stand up for women's rights.

Gotta love the "wrong sort of woman" thing. Left wing feminism is great at that.

Which is the major reason I no longer feel any loyalty to some kind of ideological left.

but not the sort of women…

this kind of statement is always very revealing to me. I see exactly who someone is when they say it.

It's quite possible, I am pretty sure there are some Labour ones too. Though I have wondered if they are over-paying them, given the types of arguments they come up with.

It still baffles me that they can claim the Tories are the better option for women, when they have had soooo long to resolve these issues and hasnt.
The headlines of these men, in womens jails, these men in womens toilets are all happening under a Tory government.

The tories may look like they will make changes, they havent done, nor do i believe they will.
They are showing you who they are by what is actually happening, they are allowing women rights to be diminished.
They are certainly no better than labour, if not worse for allowing it to continue for 10years + on their watch.

Yes, you know, like Helen Joyce, or Baroness Nicholson, Mary Harrington, maybe? just people who really don't give a shit about women.

Seriously, do people really believe Labour/left/id pol = people who care for others, Tories/conservatives = greed is good?

Do they just ignore all the people who don't seem to fit that pattern?