Tory meltdown hurting our chances to turn Labour round?

[teawamutu]

Something I'm worrying about - the Tory shitshow is so comprehensive it's looking like Labour just have to hang on until the next election and step into government. Doesn't give them much incentive to listen to women, does it?

I hope I'm wrong but it's on my mind.

Tories introduced that equality legislation (covers misgendering) as soon as they got in, they ve had 12.5 years to get rid of it but haven't.

Quite, though i fear even with another 10 years in power, they wouldn't because that would cost money.

Though i am "impressed" at how they have safe guarded maternity services for women and babies.

Campaign from within. And cross-party. All power to you!

I agree, campaign from within, let them kick you out if they don't like it.

Which equality legislation are you referring to specifically here, please?

It’s the EHRC that has written that deliberate misgendering is harassment.

I gave up my Labour membership. I want to be Labour again. But when you see Annelise Dodds tweeting support for the KS Pink News stunt and then Baroness Thornton retweeting it you just despair 😞

“The EHRC” is not a piece of legislation.

I linked to a tweet quoting Starmer as saying that “offences” such as “misgendering” would be treated as aggravated offences. The response was that “Tories introduced that equality legislation (covers misgendering)”.

Which piece of Tory equality legislation do you or the PP say made misgendering an offence?

Did it?

The EAT ruled that ‘misgendering’ may sometimes be harassment but certainly not all ‘misgendering’ is harassment, and not even all deliberate misgendering is harassment.

I though the EAT ruling was precedent setting, whereas the EHRC only issues guidance? EHRC definitely does not get to overrule the Court of Appeal!

www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/07/27/misgendering-and-harassment/

"Do you know how utterly absurd and prejudiced that sounds?"

So you are one of those people who think that being concerned about the trans ideology is equivalent to being anti-homesexual? That's not the gotcha you think it is.

Anyone in Labour stay in. Because this fight is going to get even more insane in the next few years as the next election looms.

Labour is a Terf/TRA battleground. Starmer's position is both sides get to be in the party. Basically it will come down to who can do the most inside the party, along with outside support. We need to win this fight at a local and conference level.

Yes Starmer went to Pink News and said that stuff. To score points. Same way he is talking about increasing rape convictions - to score points.

Like many lefties he thinks he can keep both sides happy. He doesn't realise the contradictions run too deep. As long as pesky women keep causing trouble gender crits can win this, but it will not be easy. Because there are not that many people who care about this issue deeply. Thing is we don't need huge numbers we just need enough people speaking up to cause the TRAs to implode. The Labour party is a Terf Party that is embarrassed to admit it. Yes winning inside involves putting up with sexist rubbish, BUT that is nothing new. If GCs care as much about women's rights as some earlier generations of Labour members did, and put the work in frustrating conditions, we can win just as they did. That will involve open defiance, along with sneaky backroom deals and backstabbing - it will be political. If we give up and walk away then TRAs will take women's rights and it will be difficult to get them back.

I see people mentioning Reform/Social Democrats as a solution. Well sorry that is unrealistic. Those parties are irrelevant. Green/Lib Dem run councils have actual POWER now. Labour runs a country and most major cities, and soon will run the UK again. We need people on the inside and from the outside in all the parties.

I am actually really annoyed by this thread. Some of us have spent several years arguing that by continually slagging off the left this issue will become part of the culture war. Anyone that believes that the Conservatives (particularly the current lot) care about women's rights have walked into their hands. They are populists and take positions on controversial subjects (immigration/gay rights/abortion) as part of their strategy to win easy votes. They come down hard on one side or the other of a controversial topic, dependent on which will resonate more with their core and swing voters. Johnson supporting Brexit is an example of this. He didn't care until he worked out it was more popular with right leaning voters. He did it for his career. The same with Self ID. He won't have thought about women's rights for a minute (Instead his spin doctors will have used focus groups and social media to sense that the tide was swayed against self ID.) So they went for it not because they want to protect women, but because it will win them votes.
By encouraging them to be vocal about it, it has bedded down the thought on those on the left who hadn't thought about it much beyond "live and let live" to think "oh this is a Right Wing view, I will go with my gut and be pro-trans". I spend a lot of time talking to people about it, virtually everyone I know is left wing. It was so so so much easier to get them to see the other side before it became part of the culture war.
We have been used by the Tories. Make sure TRAs aren't used by the Left. It is unhelpful for everyone and will not help the cause.
Sadly I've seen over the years on here that we have been infiltrated by some (who I think work for the Tories) who want to use it as a way to make people vote for the Tories. Please realise the damage this will do to the cause.
I am happy to be swayed if people can convince me that the Tory's other policies protect women (IE better workers rights especially p/t workers, increased minimum wage, more money for rape crisis centres, women's aid, better social housing which is used disproportionately more by women, better health care.esp maternity care, better carers rights etc etc)

I am actually really annoyed by this thread. Some of us have spent several years arguing that by continually slagging off the left this issue will become part of the culture war.

Have you? Where? Not on here I don't think.

Sadly I've seen over the years on here that we have been infiltrated by some (who I think work for the Tories) who want to use it as a way to make people vote for the Tories.

Irony klaxon!

Yeah we're just silly little women who do what other people tell us 🙄

Shall I tell you what I get annoyed about?

Being told I shouldn't complain about something because it might 'damage the cause'.
Being told I shouldn't talk to people who vote differently from me because they will 'use' me.

Sadly I've seen over the years on here that we have been infiltrated by some (who I think work for the Tories) who want to use it as a way to make people vote for the Tories. Please realise the damage this will do to the cause.

This is such a dumb comment to make. I’m embarrassed for you. In what universe do feminist owe their vote to Labour? They’ve never done anything special for me. They can’t even elect a female leader. They don’t even know what that is!!

safeguarding legislation for women's single sex spaces.

What is “safeguarding legislation”?

Oh and 'infiltrated'? The Labour Party does not own feminism and the fact that some of their supporters talk as if no-one else has any right to join the conversation is one reason why I'm no longer a party member and why my vote is hanging by a thread.

Hush Flo! Keep stuffing the envelopes and making the tea and the menfolk (menfolx?) might listen to us AFTER the revolution! ✊😬

Yeah and don't forget TheClogLady - it's milk and two sugars

Annoyed?

So women shouldn’t critically discuss Labour policies and proposed legislation that they think will be bad for women in case it causes some women to vote against Labour? If there is no resistance to bad ideas how would a party even know that there is an issue?

And we aren’t stupid. We know that the tories aren’t doing great things for women but just that ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE Labour have promised self-ID and apparently now also they ate planning to criminalise people who won’t go along with being compelled to use certain language.

As I said earlier you only have to look as far as Canada to see how shitty this could end up for women. We will have a party in power that funds Women’s refuges (hoorah) but then makes it so the wording of the law is so twisted the women who work there are too afraid to turn an obvious man away in case they are sacked for “trans” discrimination. The women who use the refuge then become potential fodder for sex pests or rapists.

But at least Labour funded it. They do so much for women.

I've been here for years and years. I've watched the debate grow. I'm a proud badge wearing TERF. Lost friends and very nearly a job over my beliefs. I however can see the bigger picture. I don't particularly like the Labour party, I do actively dislike the Tories. In the main because their policies hurt women. Yes they have women in positions of power, but not the sort of women who stand up for women's rights. Just the type that give a fuck about themselves, particularly this current cohort. I have run a couple of political campaigns and for this sort of thing you have to go for cross party support and on such a nuanced topic. Over recent years the debate on here is playing into the culture wars. It's easy point scoring. If you truly believe that the political parties don't watch what is said on here, and send in stooges you are naive. Obviously the major posters are not, but some will be. It's not a conspiracy theory as it's been openly exposed through the probe into Cambridge Analytical and the like.

So FiveMins are you saying women shouldn’t discuss what they consider to be bad policy that will hurt women in case it hurts Labour?

@Signalbox 100% agree that Labour need to get its head out of arse. But that will not be achieved by making the Tories the party of choice for this. And by doing so we have lost so much ground, and turned away people that are only looking into the issue now.
Particularly younger women who have already been washed by wokeness. Some will look where they align politically and use that to guage where to go on this issue.

No I don't really give that much of a fuck about Labour, but you don't win a campaign this way.

This issue will not lose Labour the next election however bad it is. Not enough people care about the vulnerable women who are most likely to be affected by it. Telling women not to talk about it just looks a bit controlling really. This thread isn’t about damage control not claiming that the tories are doing amazing things for women.