Tory meltdown hurting our chances to turn Labour round?

[teawamutu]

Something I'm worrying about - the Tory shitshow is so comprehensive it's looking like Labour just have to hang on until the next election and step into government. Doesn't give them much incentive to listen to women, does it?

I hope I'm wrong but it's on my mind.

The civil service are in control and they're responsible for most of these policies and just get ministers to rubber stamp them.

Most ministers (of whatever party) don't care one way or the other, they just want to look nice and so sign off anything that would appear to look nice.

If people resign from the party and refuse to engage, they can hardly complain when policy is formed without them.

If people support "the party" regardless of the batshit policies that are proposed then they can hardly complain when those batshit policies come to fruition. The SNP are a good example of this. We can look forward to Labour following suit.

That's why so many GC Labour members refused to be swayed by the "Labour Losing Women" campaign. They've achieved a great deal.

What have they achieved? And if they're so confident in their achievements why is it necessary to berate women that chose a different path?

Refusing to engage with a party that, right now, is looking almost certain to form the next Government is foolhardy.

Foolhardy? What's do you think is going to happen if we "refuse to engage"?
Self ID? "conversion therapy" ban? Ignoring the findings of the Cass Review? Making misgendering a Hate Crime? "Updating" the Equality Act to make it even harder for the courts to interpret?

I think that most of these things are inevitable when Labour win their majority. And it won't be the women complaining about it that make it happen.

What you say is heartening and I want you to be right. But I think self-ID is too entrenched in the Labour outlook.

I am hopeful that the House of Lords will block the worst of the legislation. But for how many iterations?

Can't believe Liz Truss has just resigned. What a shit show!

There are two problems with this.

The first being that there are changes happening under the Tories on this issue. Perhaps more under BJ than Truss, but they have been happening.

But it's also a statement that takes no consideration around how this ideology has operated. Gender ideology exploded onto the scene some 10 years ago, in different countries, largely without regard to what political party was in power.

It operated by capturing officials and institutions quietly, at a low level, and by convincing citizens ad political leaders that it was just another element of gay rights and was also medically and scientifically supported. Articles were published in popular, trusted sources like National Geographic, Scientific American, etc, and major media sources like the Guardian, BBC, CBC, hopped right on board.

The UK, and really England, has actually been unique in stepping back and putting the brakes on the policy element. Unlike countries like Canada, NZ, Scotland, even the US. We don't know for sure, but based o their response there is every reason to think if Labour had been in, the UK would now have laws like Canada, where a women's shelter cannot legally refuse to admit a woman with a penis.

That still, today, seems to be the approach Labour is taking.They have not even allowed open discussion in the party on the issue, which has been disturbing to many even apart from the issue of gender ideology itself. (What else might they not discuss even if their MPs and members are concerned about it.)

No one who makes this argument you have made has ever been able to claim that it would have been different under Labour, because we all know that it would not, it would be worse. Why this exploded as an international issue that captured s many institutions is well worth considering, but it was not caused by the Conservative Party.

The headlines of these men, in womens jails, these men in womens toilets are all happening under a Tory government.

So are you under the impression that Labour are going to sort these issues out then since they are so sincerely pro women?

They've been chaotic and shambolic for a long time. It was reflected in the Tory inflicted trans shitshow. It was reflected in their fudge to deal with the damage its done by suggesting natal girls "wait' and men shouldn't be in womens prisons except for some men. It is reflected in our economy.

It has been 12 years of the Conservatives destroying our rights, our economy and our country with failed social experiments followed by an internal Tory bloodbath followed by another ridiculous experiment and on and on.

I can't say I am surprised.

I actually think I'd like Truss as, say, a next door neighbour, but she was overwhelmed by this job.

It's interesting, there was a time when I was pretty supportive of the idea in political parties of the wider membership choosing leaders, but I've seen some really shitty outcomes from it in different parties.

So are you under the impression that Labour are going to sort these issues out then since they are so sincerely pro women?

Its a tory party problem which they have had time and capabilities to solve, but opted not to.

But is there an expectation that a Labour government will sort it?

Technocracy. It's important that we learn about it, and it's really about unelected experts dictating policy. Technically this is what happened with Covid.

The problem is when you allow experts to become indoctrinated or outsource to so-called experts (like Mermaids and Stonewall).

We've seen Stonewall and Mermaids tentacles all over public institutions, there is a deliberate naivety to think that a change of political party will change things, and it's why really there isn't much difference in any policy between all the parties.

These public institutions (as has been stated as an aim of Stonewall) then lobby governments to change policy. ITV has become a very vociferous lobbyist for these sort of issues for instance.

It's not the Lobbyists fault.
It's not the Labour party's fault.
It's not the Civil Service's fault.
It's the fault of the Conservative Party who have been in power for 12 years. For the party of "personal responsibility" they don't take any themselves for the damage and destruction they inflicted.

Or make it worse

Lol, I suspect no answer with be forthcoming!

*will be

It's an existing problem that the Tories haven't dealt with. Labour could be in power very shortly. Do you expect them to deal with it?

I think worrying about this at the moment is comparable to varnishing the deckchair legs on the Titanic.
Labour gender politics is screwed but you are seriously deluded if that is the only thing that stops you voting for them at the next election.

Possibly the authoritarian element in the party could be concerning to many as well.

Or the id pol?

This reminds me a bit of those "TWAW" lists we used to see on social media.

Did say, if it was the ONLY thing.

We are between a rock and a hard place.. but I think labour need their chance now .

This is why I don't get involved in party politics because it makes you blind to anything outside of it, and only makes you disappointed when the party you vote for disappoints you.

There's a real head in the sand case if you think it is just one political party behind this.

Don't you find it strange that all governing parties around the world have the same viewpoints on the trans issue? Do you ignore the stories of how organisations have pre-drafted legislation that they give to politicians?

The fact that most departments in the civil service are members of Stonewall is negligible?

But as repeatedly pointed out, is isn't the 'only' thing.

A party in hoc to this is:

• Anti women and their rights and equalities in favour of male freedoms and rights
• anti homosexuals and their rights and equalities in favour of male freedoms and rights
• anti child safeguarding in favour of male freedoms and rights and supportive of situations like the binfire of Mermaids being allowed to roll on uninterrupted
• pro partisan political policing and justice that enforces ideology and favours the popular powerful while suppressing heresy, instead of impartiality and equality in justice and law
• believes that accessibility and equality for all should be removed in favour of one specific small group - if necessary requiring people to hide their faith, culture, belief, sexuality, disability, or if unable to, to accept exclusion as their punishment
• in the grip of extremist quasi religious beliefs about a One True Faith which comes with punishment for heresy
• believes in a hierarchy of people where some have power and some don't, and some get to use others and others get to be used or else, based on this One True Faith

And most of all: believes reality is what they choose to tell you in the moment, even if it wholly contracts the obvious reality and what they said two seconds ago; and that inconvenient facts and realities can be ignored, denied and if necessary members of the public can be threatened, excluded and punished for refusing to pretend and collude on command.

Any party in favour of this is fundamentally and comprehensively fucked. They should never be allowed anywhere near power.

You can replace "Conservative Party" and "12 years" for "Labour" and "2 years" in a couple of years and be in exactly the same position.

But I wonder if the same poster would be blaming the party for that?

Why do you think the trans issue is linked to one party? It's something that's going on globally and it's supported by more and more medical establishments and education systems globally. It's not coming from a party, it's got to be coming from somewhere above induvial governments.