Another friendship bites the dust

[SapphosRock]

Apparently it has come to some friends' attention that I have radical views and they want nothing more to do with me. I'm now blocked.

This the second time this has happened with people I was close to.

Trying not to mind, but I do mind. We had lots of fun things planned and I'm mourning the loss of the friendships.

What have other people done in this situation?

Sure we can talk about biology, about the nature of sex, how sex hormones do the heavy lifting wrt sex differences, but none of you will discuss this on a 1-2-1 basis and without pivoting madly. It's just constant dogpiling, grandstanding and bad faith arguing....and that's the nicer ones.

It's amazing that an entire community who are consistently coming on here to complain about losing friends, getting estranged from family and having their kids go NC on them still haven't worked out that maybe THEY are the problem...

Nah, just keep blaming everyone but yourselves...🙄

I'm sorry you're going through this OP. I think your former friends will almost certainly wake up at some point and realise they've been daft but that's the stage where you need to decide if you're able to forgive. I don't think anyone would blame you if you felt you couldn't.

I have a couple of friends who buy into the gender ideology ideas a bit but I try to see past it and understand they think they are being kind. I certainly wouldn't cut them off for it. Us sex and biology realists do tend to be a bit more open and understanding than the TRAs.

You can't compromise reality for the sake of their belief system, no other religion would try to make you.

Hum

Well it's clear that both sides of the debate must be losing friends

• one side can't be losing more than the other

So perhaps what you are seeing is that one side thinks and reflects on this whilst the other is so convinced they are right they just gloss over it all
?

So convinced , or so scared of what critical thinking might do to their feelings of self righteousness !'?

We don't believe your religion. The fragile intolerance of genderists is the problem.

Most religious people I know, including many Muslims, a few Jewish people and a few Christians, are tolerant of my atheism. I'm really happy to be friends with people who hold different beliefs from me. I even have one friend who, gasp, votes Conservative!

It is very difficult to remain friends with someone who cannot conceptualise that I do not believe in the same religion. Who would ascribe me as infidel or heretic rather than atheist.

Is it? I've read a lot of discussions and I've not been aware of any nastiness or threats - they would be removed anyway. Passionate disagreements maybe. Most comments on here support the gender critical argument so there are bound to be several replies to alternative comments but it's not a concerted attempt at silencing a different view point.@SecretTransTwitterEngineer

none of you will discuss this on a 1-2-1 basis and without pivoting madly.

When someone is constantly showing us ‘who they are’ on these threads? someone who seems to only be able to admonish, attempt emotional manipulation and never seems to be able to have a coherent evidenced discussion here on this board? What 1–2-1 discussion do you want?

I'm so sorry to hear that. Losing friendships is a heavy price to pay for having views.

You don't say what your views are but from context i imagine that they amount to something like: sex is real and in some circumstances it matters.

Incidentally, i think you are unlucky to have copped for this twice. Increasingly if this matter comes up with friends/family people are expressing doubt in this new religion.

Even among the leftie liberals. There's such a growing body of reasoned, evidence-based discussion to point to.

A lifelong Labour supporter of my acquaintance recently expressed horror that the guardian have been effectively supressing the story of mermaids. Between mermaids & the tavi, the guardian have been actively concealing and minimising probably the biggest scandal of medicine & child protection in living memory. Their readers will want answers.

And people do change their views on this topic. Years ago a friend casually referred to Mumsnet as transphobic. I made a mental note to stay well clear of the topic. So it never came up. Fast forward to now, in a recent conversation she was telling me how uncomfortable the male lesbian at her lesbian book group made her feel. I just listened.

My gay cousin told me years ago that I lacked compassion because of my views. I backed off. He then radicalised himself and now sends my terfy articles practically every day.

I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. It's hurtful.

It's amazing that an entire community who are consistently coming on here to complain about losing friends, getting estranged from family and having their kids go NC on them still haven't worked out that maybe THEY are the problem...

My Christian friends haven't disowned me because I don't believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection.

My Scottish nationalist friends haven't disowned me for being sceptical about independence.

None of them doxxed me or attempted to get me sacked from my job for unacceptable opinions.

Normal people can have strong beliefs and still maintain friendships with people who don't share those beliefs.

Only trans activists have so little faith in what they claim to believe that they must disconnect themselves from those who don't believe it.

Maybe GCs and others in touch with reality aren't the problem.

I know we are very bad (and very gender non conforming) women on this board, because we argue back and state our boundaries even if they might upset males.

But we do not actually have free speech on this board. We are moderated, effectively, by trans activists. Can you imagine a board for TRAs moderated by radical feminists? Can you imagine what would happen if somebody expressed a criticism of the concept of gender on a board for people who believe in gender ideology?

Did those trying to shame OP join this thread during the week to give advice on what the single female friend should do with regards to the pressure she experienced from most of the group going away to share a room with a person she did not want to share with?

Did you, Twitterengineer, come and give your great advice on this one?

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4648458-friend-is-now-trans-and-im-confused?page=1

twitter.com/JinkiesJerrica/status/1578457771913392128?s=20&t=QE3IWPvyE_qUZj61La0sBw

Why would people waste their time responding to clearly fake posts 😂

Hilarious.

JuneBug posted a thread where we are being lectured on ‘being women’.

Oh Well. We have not seen that before. Wonderful stuff. Thanks.

"Everyone else thinks it so it must be true" might be a persuasive argument for you, but this was an effective argument for GC women we wouldn't be GC, now would we? Think about it logically... lol just kidding, I don't really expect you to do that.

www.simplypsychology.org/asch-conformity.html Yes. About 75% of them. In line with the Asher conformity experiments and everything we know about ideology.

*asch

Or maybe they have no beef with trans and just want to protect the sex-based rights of women and girls?

Hilarious. 😂

Only true part of that thread is some of the hidden replies. I sometimes can't work out if TRAs genuinely believe the silliness they come out with or if they are so desperate for it to be true that they delude themselves into fully and seriously believing it.

Sure we can talk about biology, about the nature of sex, how sex hormones do the heavy lifting wrt sex differences, but none of you will discuss this on a 1-2-1 basis

Do you need one woman isolated in a corner to get any one to believe that blag or something?

We've read that bullshit a hundred times, it's sheer desperation trying to get women on a board called MUMSNET to believe the propaganda rolled out to try and masquerade the truth that men aren't women.

Oh dear.

@JunebuginDecember that link lost me at cis and cisherto as there are no such things.

@SapphosRock hopefully one day they will be back. More and more are realising how bad this movement actually is.

What are your radical views?

@SapphosRock It’s hard, I’ve been there several times. I got ostracised from a group but it’s noticeable that some of those want to be friends again and others have stopped treating me like I’m toxic if we interact.

Ultimately some people have nailed their colours to a mast (“Be kind! Inclusivity is all! TWAW!”) and they’re having trouble either reconciling that with issues like the protection of women’s sports, changing rooms, prisons etc, or they can’t accept they were the ones on the “wrong side of history” and treated others badly on the basis of their ideology.

On the flip side, I’ve found several friends have the same view I do and we now have a little support group going. Silver linings to every cloud and all that!

No, the vast majority of us are not brainwashed into believing men can be women, or vice versa. It's only a very loud minority.
Are you one of them?

Quite. Were you a normal person Nazi germany however a majority of your friends might have disowned you for not believing in the supremacy of the fatherland.
Or were you in cultural revolution China your red army friends would almost certainly have been willing to see physical harm come to you if you were one of the dirty old 9th or even just a bit more successful than them.

Some willingly. Most for fear of reprisals. Lots just because that's what everyone else is doing.

All ideologies use morality and psychological double binds. It takes strength to stand up to this patent nonsense.