Another friendship bites the dust

[SapphosRock]

Apparently it has come to some friends' attention that I have radical views and they want nothing more to do with me. I'm now blocked.

This the second time this has happened with people I was close to.

Trying not to mind, but I do mind. We had lots of fun things planned and I'm mourning the loss of the friendships.

What have other people done in this situation?

Sure we can talk about biology, about the nature of sex, how sex hormones do the heavy lifting wrt sex differences, but none of you will discuss this on a 1-2-1 basis and without pivoting madly. It's just constant dogpiling, grandstanding and bad faith arguing....and that's the nicer ones.

Well that's a blast from the past. Have you come from 2018 to argue with us, secrettransTwitterengineer? We dealt with the 'sex is nothing but hormones' argument back then and no one's tried it since. You'll be spouting TWAW: No debate next!

I replied to the offer of a discussion. Still waiting. Maybe @SecretTransTwitterEngineer is getting all their ducks in a row…

There is definitely something in this.

I think I'd give them Matthew Syed's comment in the ST to read. "Tiptoeing around free speech is no way to raise resilient children" A lot of what he says applies to friendships and working environments too.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2a56a01e-4695-11ed-a9bf-432f673b24aa?shareToken=2355208940fb55b9df469bca0222a379

Shakenotslurred

I think some of us are still waiting for that poster to come back to quite a number of threads for actual engagement, so I will be interested to see you finally get some.

it was just a forlorn home on my part. Off to console myself with Jaffa cakes 😢😢

Saddest one for me has to be my mum who brought me up to be a feminist.

We still talk but the elephant in the room is always there and it’s altered our relationship for the worse.

GCs, what do you think is different about your opinion that friends and family drop you for? Why do you think people see you so badly for it?

not keen on labels so not GC but i haven’t been dropped by friends or family, people dont see me so badly for it

my opinion also isn’t different…

i am sorry this is happening to you sapphos they dont sound very nice at all 💐

Ignoring all the derailing on this thread 😒 and attempting to answer the OPs question.
It's not easy but this ideology is too bonkers to stand long term and I think the serious problems can't be ignored much longer - see the ongoing revelations coming out of Mermaids.
There are going to be a lot of people, like your friends, who are going to have to face how their own behaviour enabled it to keep going.
The only question is whether they'll ever admit it and apologise, or if they'll be too ashamed to face you.

Some people just are simply not confident enough with there own convictions, to be around those that challange them. And some people don't understand that you CAN have opposing opinions and still love each other.

I agree with this. Sadly society seems a lot more polarised these days and someone having differing opinions just isn’t tolerated by some people any more. It’s like left/right politics - I’m fairly lefty and so are a lot of my friends, but a number of them think that anyone who votes Tory or even vaguely agrees with any Tory policy is evil personified. I find their intolerance very closed minded and hate-filled, much as - ironically - they’d pride themselves on their tolerance.

I've lost several acquaintances over this, I'm sad that they chose that route. They were both particularly hard-core in terms of beliefs, being very black and white, often falling out with people and excelling in drama.

The vast majority of my friends feel the way I do. I find talking face to face the best way.

A small minority don't agree and believe in gender rather than sex. It's nice we can agree to differ.

In Scientology, you'd be a "Suppressive Person". I'd take it as a badge of honour. Perhaps you'll see it behooves us all to be more tolerant of those women on the GC side who don't share your politics and want to work with as many people as possible to shut down the TRAs.

Mindreader! Was thinking yesterday about my lovely Jehovahs Witness lady. I often have a chat with her , partly because it must be a tough sell in rural Ireland.
We don't agree on much but she won't be doxxing me or my family. Or spreading rumours online. No doubt she thinks I am doomed but she has compassion for unbelievers.

Unlike some religions.........

Can't speak for the other pp but my PMs are open for any discussion you please. Maybe try and PM the other pp too if you really wish for a proper discussion?

If you think 'No debate' is dumb, well, you're not wrong. But "I'll only debate you if it's on a public forum where I and others can dogpile you" isn't the solid, totally not insecure stance you think it is 😂

oh dear. So you can be derisory on this thread:

It's amazing that an entire community who are consistently coming on here to complain about losing friends, getting estranged from family and having their kids go NC on them still haven't worked out that maybe THEY are the problem...

Nah, just keep blaming everyone but yourselves...🙄

and

Don't you people never shut up about trans people and allies being 'snowflakes' and yet here you are throwing toys out of the pram for being called GC 😂

Post a list of terms that are not allowed on this board and so not actually used while accusing regular posters of using them and making some other false accusations.

Post a ridiculous thread about transitioned males being ‘better women’ than women who disagree with you. Bizarre on a feminist board, but hey, crack on.

And then you cry ‘bully’?

I don’t think you quite understand what projection is.

But thanks for the great demonstration of activist tactics for when they have nothing of value to add and just want to shame women who don’t agree with you.

It has been rather enlightening for those who have not seen it in action, I am sure.

I work in a very woke industry, and a lot of my friends come through work. I am also now freelance, and most of my work comes through personal contact. So, I regret to say that I keep my head down, and don't raise the subject with most of the people I know. A couple of days ago someone I follow on twitter (who is v pro trans) got involved in a lengthy twitter exchange where someone else had identified several artistic leaders who followed J K Rowling, and was really shocked about this. Others got involved and the general consensus that this was dreadful, what did it do to young queer artists wanting to work with these people - would they be "safe"? and in the end there was a lot of "d-m me, so I know who they are". Luckily, I'm insignificant enough that I don't think anyone would look up everyone I follow on twitter, but I have no doubt that I'd lose friends, and work, if I was too vocal.

And it is generally frowned upon to invite DM’s in this way.

Maybe you didn’t know.

anything you have to say, can and should be said here.

Exactly. It is totally against the site etiquette. Why would anyone pm a random poster who has shown not to be acting In good faith. What’s the bettering those dms would be twisted and all over trans Twitter before OJ can press send on his latest bonkers tweet

So no debate then? Interesting....I wonder why...

I’m perfectly willing to debate you. I’ll even let you go first. Let’s start with an easy one. What is a woman and what is a man?

Hmm, asking forum users to go off grid for a "discussion". Where have we heard that recently? No red flags there at all....

There is no point in debating June, last weekend June couldn’t even remember if Juneself is 22 or 26!

So just to confirm 1v1 debates are a No? You only want to debate if you have the option of having others in your corner to jump in for you?

If you came to my PMs then debate is a fair 1v1 on any topics we like with no derailment. Otherwise it is not. Why is this such an issue for you?

If you feel so strongly of your convictions then why can you only speak of them in an echo chamber where you have tons of moral support? Are we not that sure after all of anything we're saying? Are we a bit insecure?

Off grid? It's mumsnet PMs 😂You behave as if I'm dragging ppl kicking and screaming out into the desert...

just start a thread for your special debate and stop clogging up Saph’s support thread. We’ll respectfully watch and ask questions at the end.

you did exactly this sort of thread hijack last week to a distressed mum of a genderunhappy kid.

Do better.