sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

Who am I? You haven’t a clue.

Exactly.

It’s bizarre how people like @Discovereads think they’re so superior to Posie even though they blatantly lie and defame a gay man like Mr Menno repeatedly and seem to think they’re on the “right side of history” for doing so.

You’re a hypocrite Discovereads.

@FlowersBloomInAutumn want tomato sauce with those chips love?
Well I'm a working class woman and not a fan of KJK. I don't get this cult of personality. At first I thought she was in it for the cash/fame but seems my later concerns are spot on.
The left as usual abandoned us women. I don't include decent left women like WPUK etc who were trying hard to bring the concerns raised by self id and gender ideology to the mainstream but they were getting cut off at every attempt, mainly by left wing men. We haven't had that backing.Like what happened in the General Election with the Red Wall , alienation of the working class ( particularly working class women) has allowed dodgy opportunities like Posie Parker to walk in and dominate the conversation. When you have backing of God Know What ,you have plenty of time and funds to do this. I can't believe my fellow working class sisters fall for this rubbish . The men who were allegedly in the background of that event on Sunday would happily have all your rights taken away. Stop tugging yer forelocks at our sisters that had wealthier backgrounds to us ffs! Posie won't fight for your rights in a ln employment hearing but some of those men at that meeting will happily take every single one of those rights away.
As a working class woman, I will not go anywhere where an organisation has any hints of fascist links. This is not political purism . Tommy Robinson is not some Tory . He is a fascist. Completely different.
My late mother remembered being terrified as a young child Mosley and the Glasgow Billy Boys marching through her area , as an Irish Catholic ,that was something to fear. I won't go near those bastards using women's very real fears about gender ideology because I know women are being used.

I agree with you and @Discovereads

I think you must have been looking at a different Posie than I have. You sound like a female TRA to be honest.

This.

I vehemently disagree with PP anything related to Islam. I can see she doesn't have much more than a headline understanding of it and the range of Muslim cultures. I wish she wouldn't make comments on something she doesn't understand properly.

PP made the point previously that the right IS a threat to women's rights ie access to abortions, but if gender ideology take hold in the way TRAs want it, the future for women is at least as as bleak, because women's rights simply won't exist. It's FAR harder to campaign for something that can't be properly identified, than rally against something that does. So while the right IS a threat to women's rights, the very fact that it recognises the classification of women in order to remove our rights actually makes them less of a threat.

I think she's got a good point there.

I agree. Sarah Ditum does not come off well from that comment.

Posie was the first woman I saw on a stage to say "transwomen are men. They're just men." It was an absolute lightbulb moment for me (so hilariously ashamed to say that now I've bee a committed TERF for years). She's a massive asset in the gender wars.

The event was the one that WPUK cancelled and local activists got it going again. I can't tell you how amazing the whole event was and I disagreed with WPUK's reasons for cancelling it (as per Helen Joyce's essay).

I don't think Posie going on Tucker Carlson is going to lead directly to the far right getting a bigger hold on women's rights. I don't think Posie can control who turns up at her events.

I like Helen Lewis but I disagree with her that TWAW. I admire Jane Clare Jones but disagree with her that Fionne is "one of us".

I'm shocked that women can talk about other women in such derogatory terms. Well, maybe not. Most of us have got a bit of internalised misogyny in us.

I'm left leaning, desperate to vote for Labour the second they stop spouting TWAW. I am grateful for Posie's activism.

There are some extremely dubious posts on this thread.

There's some odd evidence put forward about Posie. The screen shots of what's she's said that's supposedly Terrible And Awful, are never - that I've seen - the full screen shots or threads or context.

That is so strange to me because without it, you can't tell what she's really said but also it often then looks like things are being purposely(?) cut out that would undermine the accusation she's Terrible And Awful.

The first part of specific name-calling in question on this thread is classist and the second part is unprovable without evidence.

This thread has got it all, it's like a round of "PP is evil, let me count the ways" bingo, including " I used to like her/have GC views but now..."

If the clip of PP up-thread was enough to make you clutch your pearls and look for the nearest fainting couch then gawd help you.

Do I agree with everything PP says and does - no I don't and I don't believe that I have to. If you're looking for those on the Left only to save us then you'll be waiting a bloody long time.

Like her or hate her she's making a difference and she's giving a voice to women who wouldn't otherwise have one.

@RhannionKPSS Lesbian Labour know EXACTLY what a woman is.

Do I agree with everything PP says and does - no I don't and I don't believe that I have to. If you're looking for those on the Left only to save us then you'll be waiting a bloody long time.

Like her or hate her she's making a difference and she's giving a voice to women who wouldn't otherwise have one.

This.

Perhaps women in the UK should ditch Posie and attend all of Sarah Ditum's open mike speaking events.

<watches as an electronically generated bundle of dust covered grass gets blown across the road as MN doesn't support GIFs>

Seconded…or thirded or whatever

LOL

not sorry MN doesn't support gifs though

The left won't save you, it never has. The left has always used women to campaign and help them with the promise that once they get what they want then they will look out for our concerns, except there's always something else to deal with and they never seem to get around to it.

I don't see what's wrong with women criticising other women. It's a bit simplistic to think we've all got to agree on everything and like each other.

Like others have said, PP was a lightbulb moment for me and helped me to crystallise a few truths that had been at the back of my mind and in hindsight seem obvious, and I'm grateful for that. But she can still get my back up.

One position seems to go something like: clever-clever academic feminism may sometimes lead to other (often WC?) women feeling like it's not for them, and so PP has no qualms in being more straightforward. Therefore if anyone doesn't like her, it must be be because they're snobby/not in the real world/ in a left wing ivory tower.

But that's not why I sometimes don't like her. In fact I sometimes don't like her because she claims to to be a single issue campaigner yet whenever I watch her videos she goes on ten minute digressions about the merits of various religions, or liking rough and ready blokey blokes, or Hunter sodding Biden, or women who work outside the home, and all kinds of other things I absolutely couldn't give a shit about, while giving the impression that women who might feel differently about those things do so because they're out of touch. I'm WC and haven't read an academic text in my life and I find the implication that I should therefore be on board with all this a bit patronising - inverse snobbery, even.

I think the 'will suck dick for socialism' photo with Little Owen Jones was for me, the turning point on my support of UK leftwing politics.

Completely agree.

The piece with the sexualised and demeaning language ('batting eyelashes')?

The one that prioritises and emphasises the presence of men rather than acknowledging the majority of women there and those who spoke?

I wonder if professional feminists, especially those on the left, are in danger of aligning themselves with what Rebecca West terms the "lunacy of men".

"What I’m about to say may sound frivolous, but I assure you it isn’t. I link all this in my mind with a passage from Rebecca West’s Black Lamb and Grey Falcon…I need to preface the passage I am about to quote with this but of information: At several points in the book West states her belief that, by nature, men are lunatics and women are idiots. That is, men are changeable like the moon, waxing and waning, running this way and that full tilt; whereas women are idiotes, private persons, caught up wholly in their own small world, dwelling within its narrow dimensions."

"[…a moment] in which West is listening to her husband having an intense political argument with a Yugoslavian."

Just then my eye was caught by two large, loosely formed spheres in neutral colours, one blackish grey, the other brownish black. These were the behinds of two peasant women who were employed by the municipalities to weed the flower-beds at the corners of the square. They were being idiots, private persons in the same sense as the nurse in my London nursing-home, who was unable to imagine why the assassination of King Alexander should perturb anybody but his personal friends. They were paid to pull up weeds, and they wanted the money, so they continued to pull them up, even when the students raised a shout and brought some gendarmes down on them not fifteen yards away. As I looked at those devoted behinds, bobbing up and down over their exemplary task, and the smug face of the automatic rebel, I thanked God for the idiocy of women, which must in many parts of the world have been the sole defender of life against the lunacy of men.

"I read this passage and I think: Lord, make me an idiot, an idiot for Thy Kingdom. Keep me focused on the weeds I need to pull, the garden I am charged with tending. Let the lunatics run and shout as they will, but keep me at work on my humble daily “exemplary task.”"

blog.ayjay.org/lord-make-me-an-idiot/

It’s such bullshit

PP isn’t standing for election, she’s not trying to be the prime minister so equations with Marie Le pen are lazy as fuck.

I disagree with a lot of what she says but on this issue I agree with her & im
allowed to do so

churchill didn’t agree with Stalin but when it came to defeating Hitler, he knew it made sense to be allies in that one cause. That cause and no other

this is a massive fight & there is room for all

then when it’s over we can happily go our separate ways

I've no idea. But there is a video of BLM - or people claiming that title - breaking away from a march to surround FW at Speakers Corner.

I'm not sure what their objection was as there was too much screaming and shouting going on.

You can hear a GC woman ask repeatedly ' On what basis are women oppressed?"
No answer is forthcoming. Eventually the BLM women drift away - presumably to rejoin their march .