sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

I think it’s childish and a sign of weak will.

”If I agree with bad person on X, my entire world view will cave in!”

Have the courage of your convictions FFS. Sarah Ditum et al, agree with KJK. Just say:

”I agree with her on this, but not that.”

Then have the strength to shrug off the idiots who say it means you’re now “aligned”🙄.

I know my own mind. I agree with some people on somethings and not on others. I am not a “puppet” of the right.

So you think I am hypocritical in asking why you seem to want to police people’s priorities, even though I used specific words that I have quoted saying that’s exactly what I don’t want to do?

Okay.

I agree. One of the key differences between this issue and the TRDs is that we have been able to demonstrate that people of many different viewpoints and political allegiances can come together to fight for a common goal.

The right doesn’t seem to have done that to me, have you any particular things that you feel they’ve done to you?

So you accept that when a TRA stands up and declares TWAW and single sex spaces should be removed (their personal political agenda) if they refuse to answer questions on this that would not be no debate or refusal to debate? What about if they did that in the context of being a parliamentary committee witness?

Sometimes we may wish to walk away from a discussion and refuse to debate something, often because we sense the other side isn't listening to our arguments. But we can't pretend in that instance we have not instigated 'no debate'.

Gender ideology is something that will attract all sorts of opponents. From free speechers, to women's campaigners, advocates for children, concern over big Pharma, and culminating, certainly now, in normal, everyday people who think it's utterly bat shit.

The stakes are high, the opposition is horrifying, but it's not a difficult thing to get your head around. You don't need to read a feminist book to understand that humans can't change sex, children need to go through puberty and women need privacy.

And Posie, among many women, is drawing attention to it. In a spectacularly effective way.

It's not an either/or. But the entire issue will attract a far greater field of people with individual interests and investment, than pure feminism (for want of a better term).

Of course, wouldn't be brilliant, if pure feminism attracted to the number of people who are coming out against gender ideology. We could probably wrap it up in an afternoon.

But make no mistake, this issue has absolutely, without doubt, woken women up to their second-class status. It smacks you in the face with it. You can't help but see it. It's creating feminists.

I, for one, am exceptionally grateful to those women who are holding the line with regards to abortion, welfare, equality in every sphere. Fighting for the rights of women, completely separate to gender ideology.

And I'm hoping this issue will swell their numbers.

Posie Parker reminds me of Nigel Farage..

Don't be daft. There just a smear campaign on this board today.

I went on Saturday and most of the crowd on both sides seemed to be from the Left, predominately women.
Women worried about the erosion of women's rights.

I think it’s childish and a sign of weak will.

I agree.

Not really, you refusing to justify your viewpoint when questioned is pretty much the same.

And were most of the woman happy that a far right organisation was live streaming?

What does it matter what the political affiliation of the women who were there was though??

The assumption they were mostly left so it's ok is the problem here.

I'm sympathetic to socialist causes and consider myself to be a feminist. But seeing the reoccuring bitchiness and sanctimony coming from some parts of the feminist left against women who are not "pure" puts me off.

I wish all those being bitchy and holier than thou in public or in private against the "unpure" would focus on the issues (for me: womens' and childrens' rights and safety, freedom of thought and speech, dangers of trans ideology etc.) instead of on who is worthy enough to speak up for the issues. But seeing how human nature can be, I suppose that wish is futile.

The idea that to be politically pure, and shove kids of right wing women under the bus because we are the goodies and they are the baddies, makes me feel quite ill.

You don't need to read a feminist book to understand that humans can't change sex, children need to go through puberty and women need privacy

Exactly. It’s a reflection on the simplicity of the issues at hand that explain who opposes it. Anyone with half a brain cell knows these things to be true, and that will include a wide spectrum of the human race. Your position on big or small government, taxes, social welfare, religion, or anything else considered political shouldn’t make any difference to knowing up is up and down is down.

This 'left' and 'right' is nonsense anyway. The terms are relative along a specific spectrum. Nearly all American politicians sit to the right of UK politicians - including the mainstream of the Conservative party.

That is so disappointing about Sarah Ditum.

Twitter brings out the worst in many people though I suppose.

And were most of the woman happy that a far right organisation was live streaming?

I've never heard of them, they are an absolute irrelevance. I went to the Speakers Corner in Brighton because it's a great tradition, any one can speak and anyone can show up to listen and respond.

If you have gone to a speakers corner event expecting a safe space with reputation management consultants on hand to look after you it's not going to be like that. If your reputation is one that a right wing viewer can damage then the time to think about that is before you start yakking into an unknown camera.

Well said. Two men and a dog have given themselves a funny far right name. They filmed a public event in a public park. So what.

A Woman's Place in the last week has given the pathetic old racists more publicity than they have ever had before.

And all to score points.

Yes @Datun !
I'm.one of those 'ordinary' women all the sunlight (from every direction) has turned into a feminist. At a grand old age too (never too old to learn). I can't believe how blind I have been all these years!
I'm now reading feminist books, articles etc and RELATING to it, in a non-academic, real time way.
I'm even enjoying the stimulation, and honing of my own views THROUGH the debate, amongst women, on the current issues. It's also sent me on an odyssey to explore all the other feminist issues too (eg surrogacy); one thread (of string) inevitably leads to the whole tangled ball.
PP has been as much a part of the journey for me as Kathleen Stock, for example. There's thing that I jar at with both at times- and THAT'S ok. It's working for me and my enlightenment.
I don't agree with everything, every feminist, campaigner, or MNetter says, but I bloody appreciate the debate- even this one on here now!
It's even helping me to reflect on my own struggles around class identity too (working class childhood/middle class adulthood). All part of the good meat of feminism I now realise (had never seen it in that context previously).
It's all part of the grapple I think.
I believe it's an indicator of emotional maturity and mental health, to be able to sit with uncertainty and contradictions. I'm pleased to discover in getting better at that than I used to be (benefit of my grand old age I expect).
The outer conflict mirrors the inner conflicts, and like coming to our own personal epiphanies and life stage developments often involves battling out conflicting inner contradictions, I think this new birth of women's consciousness will also involve that.

^ so much this, 100% for me.

This^^

I call it late onset feminism. It's highly contagious. 😁

ROLF: Rapid Onset Late Feminism😉

I', always delighted to find an excuse to share this clip of Posie being her wonderful, logical, outspoken self.

I think some people are mistaking "guilt by association" for plain old association.

This whole debate is pathetic. The TRAs are LOVING it.