sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

Helen Joyce has a very good piece on why she attended the Standing for Women event and her thoughts on the efforts to shun PP. www.thehelenjoyce.com/joyce-activated-issue-21/

It's been very dispiriting to see it all unfold over the last few days. Maya's been criticised, so has Helen Joyce but Sarah's comment about KJK was full of disdain.

Yes that was good, thank you gloriana

Do you know what, bring it on.
Pretty much every single significant movement in history has had some sort of 'in fighting', with people disagreeing on the best way to achieve the common goal. It means people are thinking critically, they are passionate about the cause, and they have faith in the cause

Compare it to transactivism where people just blindly parrot the same shit, go along to protests and just shout slogans or words like 'facist' without really thinking about it, lay into anyone with a different opinion on gender ideology, but never criticise anyone who agrees with them on it, presumably because they are worried that even the tiniest disagreement of opinion within their own ranks will cause the whole fragile house of cards to come crashing down. They think it makes them united, but it just reveals that the ideology itself is built on sand, any kind of critical thought is not allowed.

Keep the discussion open, allow women to discuss amongst themselves how they think the best way to organise, allow women to criticise each other independently of the opinions of men.

It's the suffragettes and the suffragists all over again. Ditum's comment was beneath contempt though. Sick of it, eyes on the prize. So many women sounding like TRAs. Helen Joyce's take on it is very good. I'll steer my own path. It's the elitism and snobbery that really pisses me off. Some women don't want the great unwashed to have a voice. They sound like the people who attack JK Rowling.

It's a shame, we need all types of activism. We need WPUK and TT to work at the policy level and get things changed that way. We need the Maya's and the Kieras and Allisons to challenge bad law and we need the Posie parkers to rabble rouse and raise the profile in the MSM, because most people only get their view of what's going on via those mediums. We need the sunlight to shine brightly on this issue from all angles.
That comment smacks of mean girl and just felt below the belt and unnecessary

Helen Joyce is always the voice of reason. The constant attacks on PP and anyone who associates with her are reflecting really badly on those doing the attacking. Helen manages to write about where she disagrees with PP in a thoughtful and respectful way which does not reflect badly on her. Let's hope some of the "professional" feminists, who are currently sewing division, can follow her example.

Women are dying in Iran, and those women are arguing about who is the best, biggest, most pure, most intelligent & most intellectual feminist! It’s utterly pathetic and ridiculous. They need to grow up & park their bloody egos.

Julie Bindel posted an interesting article by Harvey Jeni as a counterpoint

medium.com/@GappyTales/feminism-and-the-far-right-let-women-speak-72fa8d147438

@ThickCutSteakChips thanks for that. I see it now as a sign of health.

i like Datun, I like PP, I’m proud of women standing up and speaking out. Sometimes causes cross boundaries. Being a woman defending women’s rights has to be a good cause from a wide political church. If we believe in women as a class we need to have that wide remit.

Oh! .. because women are dying in Iran (obviously terrible), feminists should STFU about anything in the UK?

I have some sympathy for the idea that change will need to come from the left because this ideology has sprung out of, and is mostly driven by, the left.

However, the nasty, class-based insults directed at PP and her supporters (Poundshop Marine Le Pen, domesticated zombies, thick) are appalling. It's disheartening to see those who claim to put class at the centre of their work, behaving like this. I admire the work of some of the women attacking PP, have donated to their causes/purchased their work but I think they're wrong to behave like this.

PP has introduced many women to activism, she's an incredibly gifted campaigner, a brilliant street activist and her willingness to hold events where women can just sign up to speak is fantastic. I fully support her (I don't think I need to say I don't agree with everything she says, all the time, we're all grown-ups here) and I'm pleased to see Helen Joyce has pointed out the attempts to shun her, both in public and private channels.

If you believe in pluralism and also want to build an alliance to counter the madness you'll find that some women in the tent with you aren't going to be aligned with you in other arenas. That's how things are. If you want purity, or the purity imposed on you by your opponent, you are not going to make progress.

Agree with all of this. It's galling seeing women I've supported being so dismissive of women who've often supported them. A lot of it seems to be about class and elitism. It reminds me of Brexit too. I was an ardent remainer, but I hated all those tweets about 'gammon'. Made me cringe, like the great unwashed weren't worthy of an opinion .. this has the same vibe.

No, they should give their heads a wobble and see how destructive their snobby, nasty playground behaviour is towards all women. It’s the left like Labour that don’t know what a woman is.
The issue of women’s rights is far, far more important than they are as individuals. Women deserve better than that.

MMBaranova
"If you want purity, or the purity imposed on you by your opponent, you are not going to make progress."

Yes, this.

We will never make progress if we must be forced to continue to abide by rules set by other factions.

The opposition and the fence-sitters and the ideologues are seeking to impose impossible standards of purity on this women's struggle for women's rights and safeguarding children. We should know this by know. Women have always had to put up with impossible standards imposed on us.

I've been watching this on twitter.

That comment from Sarah was uncalled for.

Apart from that I have seen women raising concerns about a specific point, majority seemed very reasonable to me and just wanting to discuss. Different opinions were being shared. All concerns about the movement in general and where we draw the line with racism. There were good points made both sides.

KJK's response video really shocked me. I had been defending her until then. She has called left-wing feminists all sorts of names and set up a division of 'ordinary women', who she has put herself in charge of speaking for, and horrible mean feminists who don't care about them.

To be honest I found the whole video manipulative, aggressive, and a bit scary that this is how she responds to any criticism. It's really put me off her.

I can honestly say I've never seen Posie swear. Until now. 😁

twitter.com/standingforxx/status/1573376624896139267?s=21&t=CuTp7itTc3jGJGnGvmS73g

Yeah well, I utterly dislike Posie Parker. She’s arrogant, bullying and smug. It wasn’t a good look when she was shouting down BLM activists or cheering on the blackfaced “black pampers” weirdo. I also can’t respect or support a fanatic who has stated repeatedly that keeping transwomen out of womens toilets is literally worth sacrificing all womens rights to abortions; who collaborates with white supremacists and who has accepted funds from the US far right.

None of these are “impossible standards of purity” imho. It’s entirely possible to campaign for womens rights without harassing BLM activists or applauding blackface, without collaborating with white supremacists, without being anti-abortion, and without taking money from the US far right.

She has the at any cost, by any means approach that leaves her without any moral compass or ethics. Of course no one is pure but that doesn’t mean someone so utterly amoral should be worshipped as some sort of heroic leader.

Well said.
It's like people worship her.

It's funny, she never mentions you.

Yes. You'd think 'not associating with far-right racists' would be a value the vast majority of women could get behind.

She's manipulating the situation to create some kind of class division that wasn't there.

In that video she just comes across as a bully.

Posie speaks a lot of sense to me, what with me being a working class woman and a mother. Funny, innit??

I always hated it, when younger, when "my betters" "(yeuch!) told me I didn't know what I was talking about when I told that bastard man to take his hand off my arse.

I'm getting the same feeling now. Now go and remove your hand from my arse.

What did she say about BLM? I genuinely missed that somehow?