sarah ditum on Posie parker

[narcymum]

Just saw a tweet where she calls PP a 'poundshop marine le Pen'
WTF! why are women who are supposedly in this fight together actively trying to sabotage another woman's activism?
Can we not move away from this schoolyard shit?

Rachel Rooney is experiencing the social justice meted out by lefty feminist women and men in the publishing industry and beyond who enjoy causing financial hardship to people that they don't like. Nasty smears and insults are their stock in trade.

Anyone getting on the wrong side of these spiteful lunatics ends up afraid of their own shadow if you are dependent on the left dominated industry for an income. It's so very socialist isn't it, to enjoy impoverishing someone.

There's been two weeks of it now after this one event, and it seems that Brighton as a location caused it to escalate dramatically. Not on their terf turf eh?

They are failing to make non lefty people capitulate to their sanctimonious insults. We were all supposed to bend the knee the first time one of them said racist or right wing. It doesn't work though, their opinion is worthless.

elizamondegreen.substack.com/p/whose-cause-is-it-anyway?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=390853&post_id=75605785&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email

I do strongly dislike her welcoming racist men and women into what started as a woman-centred movement though.

That's the connection - it's who these events are becoming attractive to. Thuggish, violent men. The TAs have been attracting that for years, I fail to see the value of women-centred events doing the same.

The events are attractive to masked-up men with knives, throwing smoke bombs and screaming 'fascist' at babies, trying to stop women from speaking etc etc.

And you're saying that this is KJK's fault? Well then the only answer, surely, is for women to stop talking. Because when women talk (not just at KJK's events) men turn up and bring violence and thuggery.

As for KJK "welcoming racist men and women" I don't really know what that is supposed to mean. Her events are open to all. Any woman can stand up and speak. So yes, technically I suppose you're right, but again, the alternative would be to say, no you can't speak because I'm not 100% sure you share all my beliefs? Again, just silencing women. (And sounds pretty fascist to me.)

As to the "woman-centred movement" you can't get much more woman-centered than saying Let Women Speak, Woman = Adult Human Female, Men Are Not Women etc etc. But more than that, KJK is doing her own thing. She doesn't have to go along with what you or other Real Feminists think is the right way of doing things. She's had a huge impact with her campaigns, she's successful in giving women a voice and a platform. Why should she stop just because you think women are getting too much of a platform?

All I hear is you saying that some unsavoury people are going to turn up so she should stop women from speaking in case the unsavoury people are filming/looking/listening/I don't know what because it doesn't make any sense.

You still haven't explained how on earth HoO filming/livestreaming the event is a problem. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you haven't because you can't. Because it isn't.

I do strongly dislike her welcoming racist men and women into what started as a woman-centred movement though.

Apart from doing the impossible, namely evicting someone from a public space, you haven't yet identified the behaviour which was welcoming.

The TAs have been attracting that for years, I fail to see the value of women-centred events doing the same.

Women speaking up for their rights have always "attracted" violent men; trying to shut women down is what misogynists do. If we're applying the rules of guilt by association that makes you a misogynists right?

I do strongly dislike her welcoming racist men and women into what started as a woman-centred movement though.

It's KJK's organisation. She can welcome who she wants (not that there is any evidence that she is 'welcoming' racists into her organisation). You have the choice not to have anything to do with her or SFW. What makes you think you should be allowed to police what another woman does with her own organisation?

I dislike WPUK welcoming males with AGP to speak at their events. I don't have to attend their meetings or support them.

I dislike the Green Party referring to women as 'non men'. I don't have to join or vote for them.

I dislike the Labour Party telling women that we're dinosaurs hoarding rights, or that they want to put rapists in women's prisons. I don't have to join or to vote for them.

Why not just support the organisations and individuals you agree with and give KJK a wide berth if you don't like what she does. Why do you care about what she's doing?

Alf Up A Tree has done an excellent analysis of the filming by HoO

They have denounced Posie as racist for years.

Women are dying in a rebellion against the hijab in Iran and yet this left feminist consider women in the UK like Posie, anyone in fact, who has objected to women and children being covered up for exactly the same reasons as those dying in Iran to be racist.

They are looking a bit stupid now.

Why not just support the organisations and individuals you agree with and give KJK a wide berth if you don't like what she does. Why do you care about what she's doing?

This is such a good question. I think part of it is that the left feel it 'owns' feminism, so should be able to control what is said and done by women in relation to women's rights. Look at all the "you're not a feminist"/"you are a feminist" crap that goes on - like they have the right to say who does and doesn't belong, what is and isn't acceptable. They think they make the rules and have all the right answers.

I think some people are having a hard time realising that this fight is not owned by the left. That anyone can have a campaign against gender ideology. And some (all?) of the most effective campaigns are not coming from the left at all. So they are being made irrelevant in a fight they think they should own. Hurts.

And they still haven't caught on that they can't control the narrative by calling people "racist" and "fascist" anymore - just like the word "transphobe" has lost its power, those words too are not the magic spell the leftwaffe seem to think.

They are just way behind, coming face to face with their irrelevance, annoyed that non-feminists are having a bigger impact than they are, wanting to control things but having no idea how.

All this is a massive cope, I reckon.

This is such a good question. I think part of it is that the left feel it 'owns' feminism, so should be able to control what is said and done by women in relation to women's rights.

I think it's broader than that - there are people who genuinely don't understand basic liberal democratic principles, or even the concept of a "public space".

They seem to think every single space, online and offline should be moderated. By them, of course.

But they're totally anti-fascist.

That is such a good find. Thanks for sharing. Fair play to Alf, that analysis must have taken ages and I really appreciate him presenting the facts.

Is this just like Allison Bailey saying she will work for ‘even homophobic and racist women’ and the extreme activists leaping on it to say how she is including vile women who are anti- LGB and and white supremists?

Yes, it is. It's exactly like that.

I think some people are having a hard time realising that this fight is not owned by the left. That anyone can have a campaign against gender ideology.

And ironically it's an ideology promoted predominantly by the left, including those who call themselves feminists.

The events are attractive to masked-up men with knives, throwing smoke bombs and screaming 'fascist' at babies, trying to stop women from speaking etc etc.

The man with the knives wasn't masked up and neither was the woman who shouted 'fascist' at a baby.

The New Reality Denying Religion has an awful lot of lefty-female devotees, sadly,

Look at all the Mermaids-Mums for starters.

That is such a good find. Thanks for sharing. Fair play to Alf, that analysis must have taken ages and I really appreciate him presenting the facts.

His coverage is consistently excellent. Well done Alf.

Definitely worth watching! Thanks OP

Yes, worth watching and considering whether you think these people are allies to women.

Fwiw, I didn't agree with WPUK platforming DH what four years ago now. I was at the Bloomsbury meeting where DH and KH spoke from the audience mainly to tell people that they were TW as far as I could tell, and Miranda Yardley got a big round of applause for making the same point that Julia Long had made a few minutes earlier and received a splattering of claps for.

I can understand why women's groups platformed TW as a strategic move in light of the situation with proposed GRC reforms at the time as it was helpful to the GC cause to be able to point out that not all trans people were in favour of GRC reform.

I hope that they don't do it again though - opposition to the GRC reforms was a successful campaign by all sorts of women's groups.

Yes, it is like Allison Bailey saying that she'd take a bucket of water from anyone if her house was on fire (although she did say that she'd fight them afterwards if she realised that they had been trying to hurt her).

It's probably a good idea to check what's in the bucket before throwing it, I would say.

The left most certainly don't own feminism - they've betrayed women bitterly in recent years. But this situation has escalated the accusations that feminism (not KJK) is working with far right and racist groups, which makes the work that is being quietly done on the ground so much harder.

But you're the one making the accusations!

Yes, worth watching and considering whether you think these people are allies to women.

FFS no one claims they are allies to women, we know exactly where some on the right wing think women should be.

The left most certainly don't own feminism - they've betrayed women bitterly in recent years. But this situation has escalated the accusations that feminism (not KJK) is working with far right and racist groups, which makes the work that is being quietly done on the ground so much harder.

When TRA's make accusations it easy for people to understand it's a smear tactic. Who has escalated the accusations of feminism (not KJK you say, who else has been so frequently accused?) working with far right and racist groups? Fucking feminists that's who, perhaps they shouldn't have made their own (and our) lives harder. #notourcrimes

You're clutching at straws now.

Yes, that's true. They were all part of the protest though/all "attracted" by women speaking.

Yes, worth watching and considering whether you think these people are allies to women.

DID you watch it?

Because I'm not sure what your poat had to do with it!

So, we're nearly at the end of the thread and no questions have been answered, no evidence supplied to support accusations and no acknowledgement of evidence provided which proves you wrong.

You Real Feminists are starting to remind me of some other group...

You Real Feminists are starting to remind me of some other group...

It's been illuminating for me. I'm done with the bullshit now. I only argue on these posts for the lurkers.

But this situation has escalated the accusations that feminism (not KJK) is working with far right and racist groups

Marvellous use of the passive voice to obscure who's actually doing it.