Carly-May Kavanagh

[NitroNine]

There are rumours circulating on Twitter that Carly-May Kavanagh (the one who screams at babies: Daily Mail) has, despite her “apology” been suspended from the Labour Party. Presumably such a suspension would have an impact on her job as Lloyd Russell-Moyle‘s head of policy?

Apparently if she is suspended it [probably] won’t be made public. Given the reason for her [potential] suspension; if Labour actually do take action, you’d think they’d want to reassure people that they expect their members to uphold certain standards. I mean, “not screaming abuse at infants” is less upholding a standard than it is failing to trip over pebbles of basic decency…

Clearly one cannot put too much weight into Random Person Says Unevidenced Thing. However, it would be a foolish rumour to start without cause, so I thought it was worth starting a thread here to see if there are developments to follow.

Should Kavanagh face consequences for her behaviour it will be a watershed moment: Labour acknowledging women have rights all their own, including the rights to assemble & to speak on issues of concern to them, such as their need for single sex provisions.

Can we use the following from now on:

She's a complete idiot for shouting at the baby but I can understand why the presence of misogynists may have upset her, hence why I feel a bit sorry for her.

I am going to ‘really’ you back.

Really? Is this prevalent in Brighton? Is that why we have had Stonewall representatives declaring in trials that trans people’s threats and violence are to be forgiven because they feel ‘threatened’?

Is there anything ‘labour’ supporters can not get away with in your eyes?

I'm glad you're giving up @SapphosRock because your arguments are weak and you're exposing yourself as a woman who hasn't changed at all from the one you used to be. Two sides of the same coin.

Oh give over!!

Honestly, at this point, we’re going to need a smaller violin!!

Any feminist who doesn't hero worship Posie Parker including Julie Bindel and Kathleen stock are disgusting.

I like Kathleen, read her stuff and subscribe to her newsletter and Julie has done some great work. I follow both. KJK is an entirely different type of activist. We need both types. You should read up on suffragettes/suffragists.

Oh fair enough @Signalbox I didn't know Kathleen Stock had changed her mind about PP. Thanks for letting me know.

Best burn her book now.

I totally agree CMK should have lost her job but I do feel sorry for her.

Everything I've said in this thread gives context to why that is.

It's not as simple as Posie Parker = good CMK = bad.

Just give it up.

KJK has not said she is aligned with them. She has simply said that she is not going to prevent them from sharing what she says or what is said at an event.

Partly, because she can’t. But also because just like Allison Bailey said, racist homophobic women deserve to have their sex based rights fought for too.

And have you looked at the media that publishes Julie Bindel…. Better add that to her sin listing page.

Totally agree.

I also think it's completely fair enough for these two types of activists to keep their distance from one another. It is why all the Brighton feminists stayed away from the SFW event and released a statement saying why.

Calling BLM/Antifa "anti racism politics" as if that's all it stands for is disingenuous.

I’m genuinely curious whether there were any positive outcomes from all that destruction in 2020. Was anything improved for black communities in America? To me it seemed on the available evidence that they made many things substantially materially worse but I guess that view is racist.

It's not as simple as Posie Parker = good CMK = bad.

Yes. You got it!

We all agree that Kellie Jay has mis steps and says things we don’t agree with some times. We do however also point out constantly that she is not an experienced activist and is unaligned. Plus that she is more effective than other feminists in gathering support across divides.

It is you, however, you proudly stood behind your mate’s page listing her sins. You didn’t even bother actually look and think about what KJK was saying.

And she was being vilified for saying things a feminist you applaud has said ….

No woman working for single sex spaces should have a page on a feminist website vilifying her.

And so far, you have accused Andy Ngo of things that you cannot provide support for.

I also think it's completely fair enough for these two types of activists to keep their distance from one another.

Well no one is forcing them to hang out together, are they? HJ and MF are more centrist. Like me.

is why all the Brighton feminists stayed away from the SFW event

What, every GC feminist in Brighton? I don't think so.

Read Sapphos words again. She is NOT accusing PP of aligning with the far right - she is saying that some feminists don;t want to align with the far right so don;t want to align with PP. SHe is saying PP is the far right.

Just your friends who have appointed themselves to speak on behalf of all women in Brighton who know what biological sex is.

HJ is the prominent GC writer/thinker/activist I most often agree with.

I find it weird that some people feel the need to constantly state the negative (who they least agree with).

Bit like publicising who you aren’t inviting to your birthday party.

You know sapphos it's possible to agree with people on one subject and disagree with them on another without actually taking on their beliefs or believing they are horrible nasty people.

You seem to be under the assumption that unless everyone thinks, all the same, all the time then they are your enemy.

I disagree with what Sarah Ditum wrote, because its sneering and classist. But guess what I think she has a lot of good things to say on other subjects. I just don't think writing scholarly articles or books will change policy quickly enough. only direct pressure on politicians who fear losing popular support does that.
To do that first you have to get the message out and it needs to get to everyone. far left, left, centre, right, far right, monster raving looney,
women are 51% of the population and they are all the way across the political spectrum, trying to keep this a left-only issue won't get very far, because the left is too busy navel-gazing and doubling down on ID politics.

Do you know why Nigel garage succeeded so well? because he listened. While the left was busy calling anyone who questioned immigration as racist bigots, he heard working class people saying, this is happening too fast, we have lost our livelihoods due to competition, our employers no longer offer training and just recruit ready trained people, our neighborhoods are changing and the infrastructure can't cope, we can't get GP appointments and our schools are oversubscribed. Then he grabbed his pint and used peoples frustration and focused it on immigration instead of government policies and made the EU the big bad monster responsible for all their woes.

The left are now monstering women with perfectly legitimate worries, calling them bigots and racist and phobes, are you surprised if they turn elsewhere for help? If the right swoop in and capitalise on this can you blame them?

Well said.

Going back to a slightly earlier point, the idea that anyone who votes Labour = good vs anyone who votes Tory = bad is a ridiculously simplistic one. I've seen it a few times amongst English Facebook friends of mine who have done an open statement along the lines of 'if you vote Tory, you may as well unfriend me now because you're inherently evil and I don't want to listen to what you've got to say'. There's no attempt to argue points, change minds or even allow for any disserting views. I can't imagine that everyone who votes Labour agrees with absolutely every policy or idea that Labour have, same as any other member of a political party and there will be wide ranging views even among its members.

It's also interesting from a Scottish point of view where we don't have quite the same Labour v Tory divide.

The point it that most people in Brighton (and most decent people) will be more aligned with the politics of CMK than Andy Ngo.

She's a complete idiot for shouting at the baby but I can understand why the presence of racists may have upset her, hence why I feel a bit sorry for her.

I understand what you're saying @SapphosRock . The prevailing view of many people in Brighton and the feminist group to which you belong would automatically view Andy Ngo, and people who speak to or agree with Nigel Farage as far right fascists.
And if CMK holds this assumption deeply then she is likely, as most people would, if they believed they were in the presence of evil to become emotional and want to attack the 'evil'.

Her response was understandable from that perspective.(Obvs the presence of the baby made this a huge misjudgment.)

But I agree with you, I understand what was happening for her in that situation and moment. It's very human and plays out over and over.

Where I'd disagree is that her assumptions are those of all decent people and based in reality and evidence.
And that those who come to different conclusions from her e.g. admire Andy Ngo, & support PP, are guilty, and bad, and are aligning with fascists.

CMK & the balaclava thugs were definitely not the ones acting decently which should really give them pause for thought.

It really should be a 'are we the baddies??' moment, which is what I think people are trying to convey here.

Yes her emotional response is understandable but totally unjustifiable.

A fair few GC Brighton feminists came along quietly. I used to be jealous that they had some of the "big names" there, not so much now. Together we would be stronger.

Partly, because she can’t. But also because just like Allison Bailey said, racist homophobic women deserve to have their sex based rights fought for too.

This. Do the children of those groups have a magic shield which prevents them from being sucked in to gender ideology?

Of course not. Strangely, they are just as vulnerable as left wing children.

Posie is happy if her talks prevent even one child from becoming a victim. Yes, even if their parents are right wing. Shocking, I know.

It is you, however, you proudly stood behind your mate’s page listing her sins. You didn’t even bother actually look and think about what KJK was saying.

They were videos and screen shots which aren't subjective. Yes I could choose to overlook her 'sins' or decide they are open to interpretation and she didn't really mean them but I've had no evidence of that.

I also think it's completely fair enough for these two types of activists to keep their distance from one another. It is why all the Brighton feminists stayed away from the SFW event and released a statement saying why.

What that action actually proved to me, along with that vilification sin page, is that Brighton feminists are very much prejudiced against KJK, more inclined to forgive a Labour Party supporters transgressions because that supporter was ‘doing it to Julia!’, and are absolutely deserving of the elitist label being given them. They also seem to support people like Sarah Ditum and Ruth Serwotka in using terms like domesticated zombies and poundshop to describe women who disagree with them.

Not one Brighton feminist has provided evidence that they knew Heart of Oak was there, OR that KJK knew they were there. They retrospectively pushed that excuse out and hoped it would stick.

I understand they are your support group. But I have to say their actions in this have not been impressive. Quite the opposite.

They have not been neutral about it at all. They have been acting like the labels other women have given them. Is it an ego thing?

Do you know why Nigel garage succeeded so well? because he listened. While the left was busy calling anyone who questioned immigration as racist bigots, he heard working class people saying, this is happening too fast

yep

mandelson is very open about that fact that labour knew uncontrolled immigration from europe would drive down wages. it was part of the reason they went for it in fact

objecting to government policy that puts less money in your pocket does not make you a racist

disagreeing with some people who think the police in america should be defunded does not make you a racist

come on, you can do better than this

Tell you what. Do as Tinsel suggested. Go and ask her. She is very honest and very approachable.

You really have given Carly May the benefit of the doubt, while sinking the boot in to a woman active in gathering support to have female single sex spaces maintained.