Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine

[Bosky]

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit grower statement

A statement from the owner reads in part:

Downtime Update as of August 26th, 2022

"What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [REDACTED] can [REDACTED] little boys and girls into [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which allows criticism of their [REDACTED], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead."

I would link to the statement on the Internet Archive aka "Wayback Machine" but it has made all pages archived from the relevant site unsearchable (or deleted?).

Mumsnet does not permit links to the site Archive Today so that is out too.

1st Thread Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

I can literally post a link to the hosts that were on the 103.114.191.0/24 netblock that was owned by Moon’s hosting company 1776 Solutions.

I strongly recommend not clicking on that link unless using Tor or a VPN or something - it's not to a mainstream site, and could well be intended to harvest IP addresses.

Maybe this archive link to it will work if MN doesn't block it - would be safer to look at.

web.archive.org/web/20220824005717/hokioisecurity.com/fascist-hosting-company-1776hosting-com/

Longer response coming, just wanted to get that up relatively quickly...

There is literally no amount of evidence that will change your mind because your opinions are derived from your beliefs … not from facts

I'd like to formulate a response to this, but unfortunately it exploded my irony meter so I need to go and clean up the mess.

I can literally post a link to the hosts that were on the 103.114.191.0/24 netblock that was owned by Moon’s hosting company 1776 Solutions.

Right, so why the reticence to do that from the start?

Feel free to donate to a charity in lieu of an apology.

Apology for what? Trying to get you to come up with some evidence? Feel free to donate to a charity in lieu of payment for services to learning how to actually present an argument.

Now, I don't know how reliable a 2-year-old blog post from "Hokioi Security" is - they don't appear to be a real company - it looks like this poster's personal blog. Also New Zealand-based, very similar writing style, same basic "anti-hate" hate obsession.

The name "Te Rangikaiwhiria" there as the author of lots of the blog is weird - looking it up, it's maybe a reference to a member of some New Zealand Maori terrorist group?

www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/a-nation-divided-inside-the-urewera-four-trial/RGRON5C47E5INHYNOPBDRPCXQ4/

Could be coincidence - common name? - but are we looking at basically a white versus indigenous extremist battle here? It's a white supremacists versus Maori supremacist thing going on? I feel like we Brits may be missing a lot of cultural references...

This post is a rare one going up as "Hokioi Security" rather than "Te Rangikaiwhiria" presumably to make it look more official.

Assuming the table there is genuine, and they've not just added one of their favourite hate targets into the list of one of their others, that would indicate that Null was at one point hosting them. That is the information we're looking for.

(For the non technical, the author there has identified the IP address range allocated to Null's firm, done reverse name lookups to find host names associated with every address in the range, and probed the systems to try to figure out what they are - a kind of preliminary for anyone considering a hack attempt).

But can we find any archived data from someone who doesn't look like a random Maori terrorist supporting IT hacker? That's not a solid enough source for me - that's clearly not a neutral blog.

No way to tell any more where Action Zealandia's server is now, because it's CloudFlare providing their front-end. At the time that table was written, they'd have had to not be using CloudFlare to appear there.

I still don't rule out Null having provided hosting - I can imagine him doing so on some sort of "free speech, screw the NZ government" grounds - if the NZ government had blocked Action Zealandia in some way. Although it doesn't really fit - he'd do that publicly, surely?

But I can also equally imagine some random IT hacker in NZ supporting "a mix of Maori radicals, peace and environmental activists and other stirrers known to police" (as described in that article) deciding to just make up a table like that to "prove" someone is a Nazi... (And maybe try to hook their local politics to a more global thing?)

Free speech is free speech.

Not clicking on a mystery link from Mx Confused though - way too many weirdos on the internet (as proved by Mermaids this week).

And mermaids hired someone who was a peodphile apologist. shrug
Lots of groups have unsavoury connections.

I haven’t said that I agree 1000% with everything JM or KF says and does. I don’t think anyone here has. Like I said, I think he’d be interesting to argue with.

I admire JM determination in the face of an overwhelming wall of shit. Most other people would have walked away. Like keffals has…

Yep, Moon makes decisions I wouldn’t. He’s a free speech absolutist I think, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he’d hosted this website. Although no compelling evidence to support that has been provided

I think differently to him. that doesn’t make me want to obsessively wipe him from the earth

BREAKING NEWS!

Man who advocates for Free Speech for all, in line with the US Constitution, may have assisted someone with fringe views in exercising their own Free Speech.
No evidence that man agrees with said views. Vague circumstantial evidence that man supplied hosting services.

(this is not the Owning of Moon that Mx Confusion imagines. The ACLU marched for the KKK, after all. Supporting the right to Free Speech for all - including your enemies - is a major component of how Free Speech works)

Paedoacademics can give speeches to Paedo groups. What they can’t do is work for a charity for vulnerable children - I support Jacob Breslow’s right to saw whatever creepy shit he likes, I just don’t think he should be allowed near kids.

see how it works?

There's not a single person reading this who thinks confused is outraged over KF's alleged connections. Or some mumsnetters attitude to Joshua Moon.

There are, however, dozens of people who want kiwi farms shut down. And anyone who supports them to withdraw that support.

And we all know why.

What I dont understand is how people who appear quite clever can't come up with a better way to do it. Yelling about some nebulous link that may or may not be true isn't it. It's counter-productive. It doesn't stop people reading Kiwi farms. It does the opposite. Same as all the attempts to shut it down.

Because now everyone believes that what KF says it's true, and the people that want them to stop have something v dodgy to hide.

It drives traffic to the site.

The other team do seem to love kicking the ball into their own net.

Repeatedly.

Bet they got picked last for teams in PE.

And they've got to stop with the 'nazi', 'far-right', 'extremist' schtick as well. My brain literally won't process those words anymore, it's so ridiculous how they bandy them about instead of 'people we diagree with'.

My son asked me to read over a school history essay yesterday about WW2 and I just could't parse it properly. Every time I saw the word Nazi my brain was going 'uppity woman who won't submit'. And this was the actual Nazis remember and an essay about actual atrocities. It's starting to really concern me how TRAs and ant-women types now throw this word around so casually, pretty insulting really to the memory of people brutalized by actual Nazis, not to mention what's going on in places like Iran and Afghanistan at the moment.

It’s not schtick. It is an uncomfortable fact that supporters of Moon have to accept.

Moon was hosting the website for a literal neo-Nazi group called Action Zealandia that was spun out the white supremacist Dominion Movement. The founder of the Dominion Movement self described himself as a “Nazi” and was arrested last year and charged with espionage.

Among other things, members of Action Zealandia members have been discovered to be planning terror cells in New Zealand and co-ordinating with other extemist groups such as the American based terror group Atomwaffen Division.

So yeah. Keep on putting your fingers in your ears and pretend that you’re not supporting Moon and his neo-Nazi pals. On the previous page, insane forum members were literally declaring their affection for Moon.

I’ll try this again using small words. Just because I agree with JM on some things doesn’t mean I agree with everything he’s ever said and done.

Are you a peodphile apologist if you support mermaids? I will assume you support mermaids but condemn peodphilia like most people. Do you support the TRAs who tweet death threats or pour piss all over themselves? Again, unless proven otherwise, I’ll assume you are against death threats towards people you disagree with.

I may risk a deletion for this.
If you support the sterilisation of gay and/or neurodivergent children, I think you are much closer to nazi ideology than people who believe in free speech.
I know I’m not a nazi or right-wing or any of those other terms that get thrown at women who don’t shut up. If you think I am, that’s your problem not mind. Unless they pay your bills, pay them no mind.

@landOFconfusion ill start reading up on your links regarding kf hosting one terror group once I see you gunning for Twitter and Facebook hosting hate groups including those showing live beheadings. Let me know when you start.

It’s so strange, how people who believed themselves to be rebellious free thinkers fall straight into authoritarianism given the opportunity.

It’s as if they are blindfolded by moral self righteousness.

People do terrible things when convinced they are on the Right Side Of History.

I’ve never been more glad to be a Gen Xer before now.
Millennials are mental. Calling people Fascists and Nazis whilst unironically barking orders and deciding who is good enough to have an opinion.

Remember when ‘Fuck You I Won’t Do What You Tell Me’ actually meant something? When Rage was directed against ‘the machine’ rather than in service of it?

Must be time for this little ditty to get a bit more airplay.

At least we’ll all be in the gulags together, eh MN chums?

‘Leftwaffe’ is my new favourite word.

From Urban Dictionary:

Leftwaffe
A combination of "Lefty" and "Luftwaffe", the Nazi air force in World War II.

"Leftwaffe" is a term used to describe some, not all, left-wing minded people who are, ironically, using increasingly Nazi-like tactics to achieve their political agendas.

This includes leftists and media who use sayings such as "to do nothing is to do wrong", which can make normal people, who live normal lives and treat everyone as equal and who are valuable members of society, feel bullied into taking part in the leftists' own crusades and bitterness.

Ironically, whilst claiming to stand for equality and to stand against discrimination, these groups believe it is entirely acceptable to negatively stereotype and categorise all police officers under the same umbrella, either based on unfounded misconceptions or based on the one bad apple as opposed to the thousands of good ones.

The Leftwaffe often adopt violence and fear to achieve their political causes, exactly as the Nazis did. They will gatecrash peaceful rallies and turn them into violent protests, attacking businesses and political buildings/landmarks, exactly as the Nazis turned the German population to attack Jewish-owned shops. At these events, many of the Leftwaffe wear dark, hooded clothing and face coverings, akin to a modern day version of the Nazi uniform.
"Oh dear, the Leftwaffe have gatecrashed this peaceful NHS rally and have started throwing glass bottles and shouting "Fuck the police". The Leftwaffe have ruined things for everyone. Selfish cunts."

Gosh, those people that don't want stuff archived are really angry aren't they?

landofconfusion logic:
If you sometimes read KF you support nazis

so, if we continue this we get:
if you agree with mermaids you support paedophiles

@ControversialOpening Some how the purity spiral only seems to go one way... I wonder what the differences could be?

Yes. I suppose in some ways this is what happened with 'vandal' or 'berserk'. But it does seem to have happened rather quickly.

Aw, I thought you meant this one.

Both seem appropriate tunes to play while we wave the wokescolds away!

It’s part of the queering of language. Woman = anyone who identifies as a woman. Nazi = anyone who disagrees with me. Right wing = anyone who believes the scientific fact that people cannot change sex. Agreeing with someone/ a group on something = unquestionably supporting everything that person/group and everyone in it has ever said or done.

It reminds of that episode of Red Dwarf where Lister meets his past self and is annoyed by his younger self calling everything crypto fascist.

You left out "racist", and "Christian". The latter seems to have become a synonym for "far right" and "nazi".

Would that Buddhism carried the same weight of accusation. I'm not anti-Buddhist, promise, nor am I anything more than a cultural Christian. I think the difference Christianity is part of the bedrock of western Civilisation, which is bad. Not least DC, despite having gone to schools which claim a "Christian ethos" seem to know very little about Christianity, or rather are unable to recognise references to things like "prodigal son" and "fatted calf". I suspect this is part of the reason why Caroline Farrow gets so much grief/hate.

Good point @Needmoresleep. My DS calls everything racist and it drives me batshit as it devalues the meaning so when something IS actually racist, it’s more difficult to declare.
I agree about Christian = far right or *phobic. Yes there are far right Christians, but most of the ones I know are lovely people.

Interestingly, I think if schools were secretly baptising children or offering girls hijabs, people would be up in arms.