Antipodean fruit growers 2 - Canary in the internet coal mine

[Bosky]

Continuation thread from Antipodean fruit grower statement

A statement from the owner reads in part:

Downtime Update as of August 26th, 2022

"What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [REDACTED] can [REDACTED] little boys and girls into [REDACTED] and [REDACTED], while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which allows criticism of their [REDACTED], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead."

I would link to the statement on the Internet Archive aka "Wayback Machine" but it has made all pages archived from the relevant site unsearchable (or deleted?).

Mumsnet does not permit links to the site Archive Today so that is out too.

1st Thread Antipodean fruit grower statement
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4620584-antipodean-fruit-grower-statement

I do have some sympathy with your position.

Let us say someone explicitly states that black people are inferior and should have their human rights stripped. They also come up with some sort of Mermaids-trustee-adjacent paedophile-sympathizer argument.

I would argue that this person has such potential to cause offence and harm, and is so against the majority consensus in the country, that harrassment becomes legitimate, much like I'm not going to lecture the anti-fascist protestors at the Battle of Cable Street for their violence.

So the problem is not harrassment or violence. The problem is fascism (I include forced speech / forced miss-sexing in that), and people doing harm (eg people encouraging gential mutilation), people promoting violence (eg homophobic and misogynistic and anti-child safeguarding TRAs promoting violence against people who want children to be safe). The problem is when people think that they have moral authority and popular support when in fact they are dangerous, moronic extremists.

The point is that society needs to crack down on extremists hard when they harrass people, and society needs to crack down on extremism hard in order to reduce the perception of the need for vigilanteism.

for the record I have no problem with public protest just not at a private residence, unless the house very obviously comes with the job (eg The Whitehouse, 10 Downing Street or Buck Palace).

Protest ceases to be legitimate when it becomes assault (eg ‘milkshaking’) or when it becomes objectively indistinguishable from stalking (Teddy - who, once again for the record, is not actually a KF - should not have taken pictures outside of Keffals’ temporary NI address either).

You'd be surprised ...being a boring 40 something mother is quite good cover ... The older I get and hence the more invisible I become the more I get away with, frankly.

I’m a 50 something and my techy DC was quite surprised that I knew about KF.

DC has their own theory about why Cloudflare dropped KF (falling share price).

Does your DC have any opinion re the free speech union and PayPal share prices? I just looked it up and it deffo goes down and then starts to go back up after the accounts are restored but it could be coincidence…

Ooookaaay.
I wonder if jersh is reading this and is now in the hallowed halls of strange crush people, along with the marvellous Ben cooper? Both have been a blessing recently.

Not as far as I know, I’m not sure if they’ve been paying attention to that (wouldn’t be surprised though because for a 17 yr old they know a metric fuck tonne of stuff).

I have a bit of a crush on Mr. Moon.

I remember the day when a farmer, presumably Josh, paid us a visit. I think it was when the Aimee Challenor stuff started being unearthed. I know I was refreshing MN through a whole weekend as one revelation came out after another. It was jawdropping stuff. Leaves Mermaids in the shade. (I ended up feeling quite sorry for Aimee. What a rotten childhood. I don't think the queer community has done her much good, and to a large extent I think she was being used. I hope she finds peace and stability.)

Anyway our farmer was friendly but was chased off pretty quickly by the mods. They are very different fora, though probably the two that activists would most like shut down. Perhaps MN would be like the farms if we did not have mods!

I don't go there much. Only when something is exploding which will only be talked about in nuanced terms here. I am not registered. Someone mentioned that there was a thread about JKR so I went to have a look. There is in fact nothing recent, but I did like a discussion about whether she was there and if so what her user name was. The consensus was she posted under the name "Null".

I do like the sound of Josh. He does not seem to have a problem with women, like so many IT blokes do. He is also sticking his head above the parapet, and I admire him for that.

I think it might’ve been over a certain litigious ‘lady’ lawyer, who obvs has a dislike of both sites yet has reportedly had accounts both here and there?

Mermaids have just been put at the top of their "Featured content".

UK Department for Education removes trans charity Mermaids from resource list after scandal involving prominent members.

(Makes me laugh a little bit, cos it's such a serious headline for a site that likes to not be serious).

Lots of good stuff in the last few pages of the Mermaids thread, collating everything. Some of it Twitter things reformatted to be more readable, others their own work.

Lots of archiving, including copies of that weird fundraising stream Mermaids seemed to endorse.

Imagine spending a month berating women for talking about a forum that exposes abusive people including many people posting their own paedophilic tendencies online and making connections with the children they work with.

Really? I mean I admire his dedication and tenacity greatly. It may never make it into the history books but I think what he has done in the last 2 months was such a massive stand for freedom of speech and information that I think he's a genuine hero of our times. But dude looks like he's 14!

I don't know if it's biological or not but the older I get, the more impossible I find it to have attraction to anyone who even looks more than 10 years younger than me. Oooh, I think I may have invented a new sexuality, peersexual, I am only sexually attracted to my peers. We're the non-problematic P in the alphabet soup!

I did try to listen to Moon’s Mad At The Internet podcast but it seemed to me like a load of edge lord rambling. I couldn’t stomach it I’m afraid. And the live stream comments….suffice to say I clutched my pearls

Marge still hasn’t answered my direct question re: the sex offenders register.

I'm pretty hardcore having worked on construction sites for years but I had to leave when he started on about the tellytubbies 2022 wokery.

I don’t think he’s attractive in a romantic or sexual way, but I think he’d be a really interesting person to go to the pub with. I think he’d be fun to argue with without either of us screaming fascist or that they other literally wants the other dead.

I do love the KF/MN relationship. It’s like KF is the obnoxious teenager with a good heart and MN is the parent who wants to wash their mouths out with soap but loves them anyway.

I do love the KF/MN relationship. It’s like KF is the obnoxious teenager with a good heart and MN is the parent who wants to wash their mouths out with soap but loves them anyway.

😂Perfect analogy!

Although the image it first conjured up for me was "Kevin the Teenager" and Kevin would more likely end up as a bit-player on a KF thread!

Kiwifarms is not the “obnoxious teenager with a good heart” it is the webforum run by a man who was happy to sell web-hosting services to a neo-Nazi hate group called Action Zealandia and who took a malevolent and perverse enjoyment from hosting a horrifying video produced by a far right terrorist that depicted the mass killing of Islamic worshippers as they were gunned down during the Christchurch Mosque Attacks.

These are not the the action of an obnoxious teenager. They are the actions of a depraved and pathological mind. It is not surprising that some the more unhinged members of this forum consider that they have a common kinship with Moon … it is an example of what psychologists call a Shared Delusional Disorder

It would be amusing if there weren’t real world consequences. But unfortunately there are and I’m here to remind people of them. Moon is not a good person and it is embarrassing to read the adolescent fawning that some of you are showing for him.

However I do not expect these posts will change any minds. There is no point in arguing with the moonatic fringe - their distinguishing characteristic is that they don’t actually care about the real world harm they are causing.

Iron Law of Woke Projection strikes again - "hate group", "malevolent and perverse enjoyment", "depraved and pathological mind", "common kinship", " "don't actually care about the real world harm they are causing"...

PS - you've been away for ages and had plenty of time to find the evidence to a link for that Action Zealandia group you fanboy over. (Go back to page 2 if you've forgotten where we were - basically lots of people repeating the same assertion in a loop, quoting each other as sources, but no evidence).

Oh, missed this bit:

I’m here to remind people of them. [The real-world consequences]

Go ahead, then. You seem to have forgotten to do that bit.

I literally posted a link on page two of this thread. Please keep up.

White supremacist group infiltrated, Marc Dalder, 7 September 2022

“Action Zealandia's website was hosted by the owner of overseas hate site KiwiFarms, which coordinates real world stalking and harassment of minorities and critics. Multiple suicides have been linked to KiwiFarms and the website also infamously hosts copies of the March 15 terrorist's livestream.

A weeks-long campaign to take KiwiFarms offline succeeded over the weekend, with the security provider Cloudflare dropping the site. That appears to have removed Action Zealandia's protection as well – the site is currently inaccessible.”

Right, and as I said, there's no evidence there. You're just repeating assertions. Please keep up.

The only thing I can confirm is that their site went down around the same time (but a few weeks uncertainty on the precise timing). There's no evidence presented that that it's connected.

And given that Kiwi Farms is now back up but they're not, the evidence is now neutralised. The apparent coincidental "being down" link isn't there any more.

(Plus they're clearly better than Kiwi Farms because CloudFlare is still happy to serve them 😂- are you trying to make them look bad by association with KF?)

PS - are you a friend of MargaritaPie? Maybe you could get together and figure out a technical explanation for how CloudFlare withdrawing its DDoS front-end for site A but not site B can have any connection to the servers of site B going down?

I'll try another of my night-club analogies.

A weeks-long campaign to take KiwiClub offline succeeded over the weekend, with the security provider Cloudflare withdrawing its bouncers. That appears to have removed ZealandiaClub's protection as well – CloudFlare's bouncers are still standing outside, but the front door is locked.

A bit of a non-sequitur. You understand?

To be fair, it could be true that there is some sort of connection, but we need evidence.

I was being a bit mean to Marge, explaining why CloudFlare couldn't have protected against the KF hack, but they're not unconnected. It's not a coincidence that KF's CloudFlare protection was pulled and they were hacked in a short time frame.

But the connection isn't a technical one - it's just that there was a window of intense focus leading to a concerted attack with multiple perpetrators using a variety of routes, so you're seeing the results of two independent attacks back-to-back. (Although obviously the first attack was ineffective or there wouldn't have been an accessible site to hack...)

Action Zealandia being down could be the result of the same hacking group that hit KF. But that's speculation. (Didn't see any statement from them about their website being down or a reason last time I looked, when I was trying to figure out who they were - not rechecked.)