What rights don't transpeople have?

[CrossStichQueen]

It's a question I have seen asked many times and it is rarely answered. When it is its usually a list of things that are not "rights" or a list of rights/demands not held by anyone else.

It appears Katie M has provided a list of Countries with each trans right they don't provide. KM has also provided source links however many just link to a chart with dots indicating the "trans right" that country doesn't have. No explanation as to why.
For example:

Albania - No legal name change at all.

Quick look and it turns out in Albania nobody can legally change their name. Anyone can socially change their name and change it on their passport and driving licence but nobody can change their BC. So this is not a right others have and trans are denied as implied by KM it is in fact the same rule for all.

While Albania like many countries is behind on LGB support/rights it appears that the lack of rights transpeople do not have are the same rights those who are LGB are also denied yet it seems only the fact that transpeople don't have them is what matters.

The list for each country is very much the same for those countries that share a geographical location/religion/culture and so the sources linked appear to be the same dot chart I mentioned earlier.

The UK list is interesting.

No legal gender recognition without mental health diagnosis. This only applies to changing your BC and the person must have medical support to state they have/had gender dysphoria. Nobody else in the UK has the right to change their BC

No legal gender recognition without spousal consent. This is so that spouses are not forced to be in a now same sex marriage without their consent once the transperson has changed their BC. Transpeople appear to want to remove the consent of others in a legally binding contract which marriage is

No legal ban on conversion therapy. The Conversion therapy ban in the UK is made up of 3 existing Acts. Sexual offences Act 2003. Criminal justice Act 1988 and the offences against person Act 1861. This covers all physical acts and medication abuse used in order to "convert a person's sexual orientation or gender identity". What the trans movement want is affectively counselling of transpeople banned. This means no transperson could seek therapy if they have feelings of GD or confusion around their gender. That is not a right.

No legal parenthood recognition. Any male or female who parents a child has the right to be legally recognised as either their mother or father dependingon the persons sex. Legally in the UK if you are the biological or adoptive parent you are legally recognised as mother if female and father if male. That right applies to all including transpeople.

No legal right to religious marriage. In the UK no religious organisation can be compelled to marry same sex couples so this is a right LGB people do not have also so why does it only matter for transpeople?

No practical access to trans healthcare. This is just a lie. Transpeople have the same access to healthcare as anyone else in the UK. What the source linked discusses is that some transpeople when polled stated they felt prejudice from some healthcare professionals which "put them off" seeking healthcare. While this prejudice is wrong it is sadly experienced by many different people due to their culture/racce/religion/sexual orientation. Transpeople have the same RIGHT to access healthcare un the UK as anyone else

I havent gone through the whole list but looking at certain countries the rights trans people claim not to have are either the same for all trans or not, women do not have those rights either or those in the LGB community also do not have those rights. It seems to me that the trans Community do not want equal rights or rights for women or those in the wider LGB community they just want trans rights (most of which are not rights) for transpeople only and screw everyone else.

Nothing that comes from KM is ever going to be in good faith, I'd take it all with a truckload of salt.

I thought you could have your birth certificate changed if there was a mistake on it? Trans or not.

Nothing that comes from KM is ever going to be in good faith, I'd take it all with a truckload of salt.

Absolutely. So much salt I now have high blood pressure 😏

I do wonder if KM assumed people would just take the list as gospel and not look further in to it?

Standard Twitter MO is to expect people to take things on faith and not check references. Unfortunately it's often true.

No practical access to trans healthcare.

As usual, no specifics. If this refers to people wanting to change their genitals and secondary sexual characteristics then presumably these people strongly believe that "men" and "women" (not defined) have certain types of body. Yet this is seen as a transphobic belief.

&I thought you could have your birth certificate changed if there was a mistake on it? Trans or not.*

As far as I know there are limited reasons for a legal BC change in Albania, a mistake is one as those who are later diagnosed with DSD and now have their actual sex confirmed medically which differs from what was observed and recorded at birth. I think many countries allow BC changes under those circumstances.

Trans people have exactly the same rights as everyone else in the UK, as we know. Whatever they, and especially KM, talk about as 'rights' really would constitute special treatment.

There was a radio show a while back with Iain Dale interviewing Kathleen Stock. One memorable bit was a TW caller berating KS for being against 'trans healthcare'. This healthcare turned out to be KS opposing uterine implants into TW.

Some do not want TW to have equal rights even if they already have.

They want everything that women have and more. Women need to see TW as women without any disagreement.

And if we don't see TW (in whatever shape or form they come in, as anyone can self id) as women, because our safety and dignity, or experiences, then we should stay at home.

TW (in whatever shape or form the come in) cannot use the male facility because that would make them unsafe, and they deserve to be safe and have their dignity. Anyone who doesn't 100% agree is a genocidal cult member who want to wipe trans people off the face of the earth.

To suggest alternative facilities is akin to apartheid in South Africa.

And if Black women can use toilets then so shod TW be able too. (I wish I was joking but this has horrific comparison has been made many times on Twitter).

So women, if we don't want to share facilities, then we need to stay at home. That's what our rights should be, according to some.

I think you're right on the birth certificate thing, @CrossStichQueen . In the UK you could change your bc if it contained a genuine mistake but not otherwise. Which is as it should have remained.

Well who’d have thought that the most oppressed group, actually do have the same rights as the rest of us

No practical access to trans healthcare.

What is trans healthcare?

If being trans isn't a medical condition, why do they need specialist healthcare?

So women, if we don't want to share facilities, then we need to stay at home. That's what our rights should be, according to some.

The other day I saw someone link to an old article in the New Yorker from 2014. Basically all the same stuff we see now, but only in odd little American enclaves.

What is a woman? - The dispute between radical feminism and transgenderism

Fascinating read, if only to see how ahead of the time it is.

And you can see that entitlement there already in the closing paragraphs

One of the trans women who showed up at the Radfems Respond conference, a thirty-five-year-old software engineer from California, with a tiny nose stud and long brown hair, agrees. She understands why trans women are hurt by their exclusion from Michfest and other female-only events and facilities, saying, “It’s not really wanting to invade space. It’s a deep-seated wanting to belong.” But, she adds, “if you’re identifying with women, shouldn’t you be empathizing with women?”

Sandy Stone [activist transwoman] shares this view—up to a point. Of the radical feminists’ position, she says, “It’s my personal belief, from speaking to some of these people at length, that it comes from having been subject to serious trauma at the hands of some man, or multiple men.” She adds, “You have to respect that. That’s their experience of the world.” But the pain of radical feminists, she insists, can’t trump trans rights. “If it were a perfect world, we would find ways to reach out and find ways of mutual healing,” she says. But, as it is, “I am going to have to say, It’s your place to stay out of spaces where transgender male-to-female people go. It’s not our job to avoid you.”

These people have been thinking like this for years in their activist circles. We're seeing the result of their fantasies hitting reality now. And they wonder why there's such a "transphobic" backlash...

Nothing will satisfy them.
They are protected and respected in terms of being able to dress and live their lives the way they want. They bang on about their rights in order to get to a point where not buying their gender ideology becomes a hate crime.
What they really want is us believing that TWAW and TMAM…. Ain’t going to happen I am afraid!

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic and the added protections that come from being transgender are dependent on meeting the legally defined criteria so of course a GD diagnosis is required. That's only fair.

The birth certificate and legal parenthood status is for the benefit of the child not the parent. To expect the child's legal rights to be taken away is the height of selfish narcissism.

Is there anywhere in the world where you have rights removed the day you publicly state 'I am trans'? There isn't is there?

You're a man that plays rugby. So you play on the men's team. Then you start identifying as a woman. You can play on the women's team because you're not actually a woman and it's dangerous. Nobody is stopping you continuing to play on the men's team you've been playing on for 20 years. No rights removed.

You're a man that is registered at a GP. You have the right to make an appointment to see them, like everyone else. You undergo transition including surgery and hormones. You still have the right to make an appointment to see you're GP. No rights removed.

Can anyone think of any examples anywhere where declaring yourself trans takes away rights you previously had? I can't.

I appreciate the list provided by KM is now 2 years old but the same falsehoods are still regurgitated time and again regarding trans rights. Usually alongside the claim that if it wasn't for transwomen the LGB community would have no rights at all 🙄

edinburghath.tumblr.com/post/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

You bunch of bigots! Almost everything on the manifesto here is still to be achieved thank god.

Wow that's some scary shit!!!

“I am going to have to say, It’s your place to stay out of spaces where transgender male-to-female people go. It’s not our job to avoid you.”

I thought it was our job to stay in these places, to act as a validatory female presence?

Gasp0de that is bat shit crazy.

I would imagine that is to extreme for most TRAs - its got to be.....right?

Every time I look for that I expect to find that a sane person has removed it.

Can anyone think of any examples anywhere where declaring yourself trans takes away rights you previously had? I can't.

There have been. There was an outright trans ban in the US military, for example.

I can't think of any now.

And even though activists often claim to want things to be "gender-based", rather than "sex-based" that's never actually enforced, so for example they wouldn't insist on someone "transitioning" from "female" to "male" having to leave a "woman's" space.

So the practical rule is usually "non-trans people separated by sex, trans people do whatever they want". "Trans" declaration always adds rights.

The only thing missing from that list of demands is the threat to go into the garden and eat worms or 'scream and scream and scream until I'm sick!'

Surely trans health care is: ok you've broken your leg, let's get that fixed. Is your sex male or female so we know whether you are at increased risk of osteoporosis? Yes you can have the pink cast if you like.
The article which includes demanding the right to medical training to carry out medical experiments and modifications 'ourselves' sounds like it's from a dystopian novel. Also sounds like it was shouted rather hysterically rather than typed in a thoughtful manner.

As far as I can tell, it means free access to hormones and other affirmative procedures.

According to Shon Faye, just because something requires healthcare doesn't mean that it's an illness. Shon compares it to the need for contraception and abortion (of course they do 🙄)