What rights don't transpeople have?

[CrossStichQueen]

It's a question I have seen asked many times and it is rarely answered. When it is its usually a list of things that are not "rights" or a list of rights/demands not held by anyone else.

It appears Katie M has provided a list of Countries with each trans right they don't provide. KM has also provided source links however many just link to a chart with dots indicating the "trans right" that country doesn't have. No explanation as to why.
For example:

Albania - No legal name change at all.

Quick look and it turns out in Albania nobody can legally change their name. Anyone can socially change their name and change it on their passport and driving licence but nobody can change their BC. So this is not a right others have and trans are denied as implied by KM it is in fact the same rule for all.

While Albania like many countries is behind on LGB support/rights it appears that the lack of rights transpeople do not have are the same rights those who are LGB are also denied yet it seems only the fact that transpeople don't have them is what matters.

The list for each country is very much the same for those countries that share a geographical location/religion/culture and so the sources linked appear to be the same dot chart I mentioned earlier.

The UK list is interesting.

No legal gender recognition without mental health diagnosis. This only applies to changing your BC and the person must have medical support to state they have/had gender dysphoria. Nobody else in the UK has the right to change their BC

No legal gender recognition without spousal consent. This is so that spouses are not forced to be in a now same sex marriage without their consent once the transperson has changed their BC. Transpeople appear to want to remove the consent of others in a legally binding contract which marriage is

No legal ban on conversion therapy. The Conversion therapy ban in the UK is made up of 3 existing Acts. Sexual offences Act 2003. Criminal justice Act 1988 and the offences against person Act 1861. This covers all physical acts and medication abuse used in order to "convert a person's sexual orientation or gender identity". What the trans movement want is affectively counselling of transpeople banned. This means no transperson could seek therapy if they have feelings of GD or confusion around their gender. That is not a right.

No legal parenthood recognition. Any male or female who parents a child has the right to be legally recognised as either their mother or father dependingon the persons sex. Legally in the UK if you are the biological or adoptive parent you are legally recognised as mother if female and father if male. That right applies to all including transpeople.

No legal right to religious marriage. In the UK no religious organisation can be compelled to marry same sex couples so this is a right LGB people do not have also so why does it only matter for transpeople?

No practical access to trans healthcare. This is just a lie. Transpeople have the same access to healthcare as anyone else in the UK. What the source linked discusses is that some transpeople when polled stated they felt prejudice from some healthcare professionals which "put them off" seeking healthcare. While this prejudice is wrong it is sadly experienced by many different people due to their culture/racce/religion/sexual orientation. Transpeople have the same RIGHT to access healthcare un the UK as anyone else

I havent gone through the whole list but looking at certain countries the rights trans people claim not to have are either the same for all trans or not, women do not have those rights either or those in the LGB community also do not have those rights. It seems to me that the trans Community do not want equal rights or rights for women or those in the wider LGB community they just want trans rights (most of which are not rights) for transpeople only and screw everyone else.

@Catiette my DH is a TWAW person, he understands all my points but still thinks that 'something' needs to be in place to allow TW to live fully as Women including accessing womens spaces because TWAW. It's the most frustrating conversation each and every time.

I was explaining to him the other day that a journey home from work when I have to travel to London, includes:

• making sure I have an aisle seat so I can get up and move to another carriage if needed. If the carriages all have just one lone men then the back up is to stay in the vestibule near the doors.
• making sure I have a Teams call scheduled with one of my US colleagues for the walk from the train to my car because the station is on a road where there is usually trouble and the car park is where the druggies hang out.
• making sure I park on the lowest level of the car park possible so I can avoid the stairwells and lifts which often have faulty lighting and people hanging out drinking and taking drugs.

I swim a lot and have repeatedly complained about the Random Aggressive Men swimmers. The ones who join the slow lane then proceed to try to swim over you or thrash by kicking or hitting you as they go. Since reading about the poor woman who was shoved and held under the water by an aggressive man in a pool a few months ago, I'm now on alert and mentally preparing myself to grab and twist their soft bits if needed.

It's pervasive, feeling like you're on alert whenever you're in a situation where physical strength and aggression means you are at a disadvantage.

Thank you, Helleofabore! I lurk regularly and do think I'll post more. This stuff really gets me thinking in a way I miss from uni.

And (case in point), ANewCreation, that works so very well. It's clever - as fairytales are the realm of imagination and exaggeration, it's rather disturbing to recognise that your bedtime story, with just a few words changed, is really a fair depiction of our reality...

Yes, FatAgainItsLettuceTime (great name, and true for me right now!). My lovely, empathetic, respectful father tried out a NAMALT on me maybe a year ago, and I still remember the frustration I felt. I wanted to say (but was only starting to engage with these issues, and didn't think quickly enough), "So is that the attitude you want me to take next time I'm walking home in the dark through the underpass?" He was, in part, playing devil's advocate - we like debating - but it struck me that what was a rhetorical gambit for him was actually a bit upsetting to me, and still rankles now. I'd love to go out running at night, but don't, and he'd be the first to advise against it.

It is interesting that the enthusiastic poster "Trying," later went and deleted most of his own posts. I think it may be because he got his arse handed to him on a plate, continually. His deletions are mostly that he requested deletion of his own posts - not anyone here asking for him to be banned.

I find that quite interesting.

I like waffling and being incoherent as much as the next person but I need to know what specific rights a trans person doesn't have.

Is it the right to vote? Is it the right to marry? Is it the right to equal pay? Is it the right to decent healthcare under the NHS? What does that mean? because if its off label drugs and cosmetic surgery on demand, im not sure if that's what the nhs should be paying for.
And if it's better funded research to ensure decent on-label medical interventions, MS-ers like me would like some too, please. So would women with endometriosis.

Surely you don't mean the elaborate taxonomic tangle the man used to explain why transwomen can be categorised with women forgot all about transmen? Like they're less important than transwomen for some reason?

In short, I'm used to Mummy/Girlfriend/Wife putting my needs first so I expect all women to.
Also, I like to be submissive when having sex, isn't that what all women do. QED, I am a woman.

Yeah, it's odd that. If only we could think of a reason why transmen might be less important that transwomen.

I mean, what could that reason be..?

I think that our visitor was actually a very interesting example of how misogynistic posters can be without being aware of it. And how those posters will willingly amplify voices of posters who lack any depth of knowledge of what they are talking about but are very confident that they are right and righteous. Or have noticeably misogynistic posts like on the AIBU thread where he was in full support of a poster speaking total obfuscating bollocks, supposedly from having a biology degree as well, who posts eye popping posts about women being hysterical and hyperbolic in their concerns.

It was an exercise which required anyone supporting it to have an unquestioning belief that they are 'right', and thinks it is ever ok to use terms like hysterical (but hey, we were called incels and repeatedly called extremists and that we were fighting a made up war) in discussing women's concerns.

It is almost like some posters have teflon coatings to their perception of themselves that they will never take on board what anyone says because those people, the ones over there, I (general 'I') can discredit them by repeating my prejudiced view on them so their view will never need to be listened to.

It is not a stand alone view of course. We see it every day.

I've seen it explained (in an article by a Canadian detransitioner, I think it she knew the 'cotton ceiling' bloke), that tm had male privilege. So they had to give way to tw because, as women, tw were oppressed by men. It's genius, in a batshit kind of way. Heads men win, tails women lose.

I doubt our poster was thinking about that though.

I've seen it explained (in an article by a Canadian detransitioner, I think it she knew the 'cotton ceiling' bloke), that tm had male privilege

You're thinking of Benji/GNCcentric.

Here she is talking about it:

Thank you, I've only read the article. I'll watch this.

As an aside, I love the patchwork behind her....suffragette colours.

Talking of ‘transmen’ did anyone see the extraordinary programme last night Naked Attraction, maybe a repeat. I heard most of it as I was doing something else, and it featured a women presented as he plus chosen name . Matched with an NB I think, male. I could not believe that this woman with all her womanly bits, expected everyone else to refer to herself as a man , and expect everyone else to do so . Certainly I could never in all honesty do that, but to be fair I never heard the earlier part. The date thing did not work out, probably because both were more concerned about outing themselves in public than acknowledging a straight relationship was not what they were looking for! But it was all part of the way in which we are supposed to accept everybody’s delusions as truth.

Am watching it now.

It’s absolutely hilarious but I’m not sure that’s the vibe they were going for…

I have never watch naked attraction in my life until now so firstly...

What the actual fuck????? HOW is that even allowed?

Secondly. I just felt really sorry for the transman. Just seemed really lost and vulnerable. It makes me sad and mad that they've been convinced that chopping bits off themselves is the answer.

Having a reasoned and civilized debate about women's rights= extreme bigotry and hatred
Persuading young women that they will only be accepted if they cut off their breasts = the wonderful kind expression of freedom to be your true self
Apparently...

Having a reasoned and civilized debate about women's rights= extreme bigotry and hatred

Persuading young women that they will only be accepted if they cut off their breasts = the wonderful kind expression of freedom to be your true self

Its absolutely fucking batshit, isn't it?

It's taken me a while to read through all this thread - what a rollercoaster

I don't understand how Trying posting here on an anonymous forum became linked to his real-life identity elsewhere. I do hope he's ok though, nobody should ever be threatened for having an opinion and discussing that opinion.

Poster 'Trying'.

He turned up here, determined to teach us naughty wicked women how we were so Wrong and embroiled in WrongThink. And he got his arse handed to him. Several times over. Multiple times.
He seems to have responded by deleting most of his own posts and buggering off.

I hope he has been given some food for thought.

I don't understand how Trying posting here on an anonymous forum became linked to his real-life identity elsewhere.

I'm not sure it was. He just said that someone threatened him elsewhere online, not that they knew who he was. Maybe he was worried he'd said things which were outing, hence deleting everything.

I realise the conversation has moved on since then, but I see a nice little diagram to demonstrate the varying usefulness of the set based definitions of man and woman on this thread, and how well they act to group similar items together.

To be fair, the bottom diagram should probably overlap for the Eddie izzard and Pippa Bunces of the world.

"tm had male privilege. So they had to give way to tw because, as women, tw were oppressed by men. It's genius, in a batshit kind of way. Heads men win, tails women lose."

Vomit inducing

It is. And of course it works in real life doesn't it?

All you have to do to make men with male privilege give it up, is tell them to.