Antipodean fruit grower statement

[nothingcomestonothing]

The antipodean fruit growers site is down. A statement from the owner reads in part:

What I fear more than losing my site, being sued, or dealing with police is living in a world where [redacted by me as would be against MN talk guidelines] while normal people are not allowed to even discuss it.

The mob has already planned subsequent targets. Should we stay down, they will then attack 'gender critical' communities - especially those ran by and for women. No place can exist online which criticizes [redacted], and nothing would excite them more than this power and domination struggle being inflicted on a female space instead.

Posted for info.

Crikey. The posts I read on KF often used disgusting, transphobic (actual transphobia, not 'sex is real'), homophobic, misogynistic, disablist, and generally awful language - I assume mostly trying to be 'edgy' but still grim. BUT a lot more of value got said among all this than you might expect - once people stopped trying to shock or taken to task for posting things they couldn't actually back up, there was some real discussion. Receipts were demanded and shown.

I think free speech is important, even if people are being disgusting - you know full well what to expect on that site.

I imagine libel is a big factor on there, whereas not so much on here.

If only they'd target the porn sites (including reddit), which profit from the rape of women and children, with such gusto.

This exactly. It just shows what priorities certain people have.

The means of this is to manufacture evidence pretending to be from targeted site, then jump up and down and report/scream about evidence and make time wasting false reports, and then get some truly stupid celebrity or politician to open their fool mouths without checking evidence and make a fuss in the belief the false evidence is true, until the negative publicity makes all funders/platformers pull out in sheer overload with the non stop hassle.

It will be very hard to play this game on a bunch of mums politely talking here. It won't half however demonstrate what degree of stability, morality, ethics, truth and behaviour is being exhibited here and constantly linked as coming from/ in the name of a specific protected group, who are acquiring a lot of public notice and public image in the process. And that those engaging in these games are obsessed with preventing evidence, discussion and organisation regarding female rights, homophobia and misogyny, in the fond belief (linked to many associated beliefs) that if you hide the words or try to make people say only what you want them to say, reality goes away and everyone obeys you.

Sadly this is not the case. It never will be the case. And platforms and the general public and social opinion will just evolve to deal with this kind of behaviour and group. While getting increasingly irritated with it.

I'm not sure who wins really, other than people in basements with a bit too much time on their hands.

nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/kiwi-farms-the-webs-biggest-community-of-stalkers.html
The largest virtual pillory, and the one that best exemplifies its ethos, is Kiwi Farms, a loose community — centered on a forum and two wikis, with some activity on Tumblr, Twitter, Steam, and “lolcow” chan boards — that specializes in harassing people they perceive as being mentally ill or sexually deviant in some way.

gizmodo.com/the-worst-site-on-the-web-gets-ddosd-after-being-connec-1847196197
Kiwi Farms—an online forum best known for harboring stalkers, white supremacists, and overall being one of the worst cesspits the internet has to offer—was knocked offline temporarily on Tuesday in what the site’s operators called a paid-for Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack. The alleged attack comes after the site was implicated in the recent suicide of Near ... In the final Twitter thread they posted before their death, Near—who also went by Byuu, and identified as nonbinary—publicly called out Kiwi Farms for making their lifelong experience with online harassment and bullying “orders of magnitude worse.”... Kiwi Farms, a site whose toxic community very publicly drove Portland-based game developer Chloe Sagal to kill herself back in 2018. In 2016, a Canadian woman, Julie Terryberry, ended her life after being targeted by the site.

This is the site you are defending?

I could say Mumsnet had driven me to suicide. But it wouldn’t be true.

I hope they manage to keep the site going, KF do a lot of good work exposing the truth and as someone said above they always provide receipts.

This.

I think 'Kiwifarms is troublesome' angle is a massively exaggerated statement spread purely by TRAs.

Nothing says “Feminism” quite like defending the owner of a site who’s primary M.O. is to Doxx & harass women

I don't think the majority of threads on the site concern women.

KF don't target random people do they? They usually react to stuff people post themselves online. They just do it without walking on eggshells.

No, just people on the internet who amuse them.

It's pretty harmless fun TBH.

I have a lot of respect for the farms. Yes, they poke a lot of fun, but they also have an absolutely relentless culture of insisting that claims be backed up, whether those claims fit 'their' side or not.
Whenever anyone posts something that might not be true, other posters immediately jump in requesting verification and proof. The farms is a place that disinformation goes to be dissected.
If Mumsnet is the online version of a mum rolling her eyes and saying, 'Stop being silly', then KF is that one really argumentative teenager in secondary school who just couldn't stop themselves from loudly and vocally poking holes in every single religious studies lesson.

I think it's also worth mentioning that KF is equal opportunity offensiveness. They'll poke fun at everyone and every group. They might be incredibly vulgar but no one's above it.
They're almost like the equivalent of a Dave Chappelle or Ricky Gervais stand up special. You'd almost think they've got a checklist to make sure that no demographic is left out of the ribbing, including themselves.

Well hardly defending, more hoping it's still a site people can visit and say exactly what they really think.
I've seen some horrible comments on there, but almost always someone comes along with a cutting and true remark/response.

if you see something on there that you dont like, you are most welcome to rebutt it, put your case for a different spin.
Just like here in fact, although fewer rules about it.

TullipR (detransitioner) mentioned KF in an interview. He said it’s part of the reason he didn’t get FFS - seeing TW appearance being slated rather than praised as they would have been in the other online spaces he was in - and also helped with his decision to detransition. Weirdly he also discussed Near / Byuu mentioned above and says KFers don’t think they committed suicide and had other reasons to leave Japan/go into hiding. (I have no idea who this person is or was btw)

The whole 'yeah but are they a grotty place that deserve it' is a red herring.

Two relevant quotes:

'I may disagree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it'

and

'first they came for....'

The behaviour is unjustifiable regardless of how smeared the target is.

I’ve never been able to get past the farmers being thrilled Null streamed the footage of the murders in the mosques in NZ. They were all “yeah, free speech!”
Horrendous.
To get to the useful information on people on like Jessica Yaniv you have to wade through awful misogyny and the nasty stuff teenage boys say when they want to sound tough. I’m deeply ambivalent.

Good to know that NY Mag and Gizmodo have incompetent journalists.

KF reminds me of the period in my life I used to work in construction. Harsh, very harsh, and you have to learn how to argue your case.

To get to the useful information on people on like Jessica Yaniv you have to wade through awful misogyny and the nasty stuff teenage boys say when they want to sound tough
True, but I just skim all the edgelording for the facts and evidence that you can’t get anywhere else. It’s not my default Cosy Bit Of The Internet by any means but it has its place.

I’ve never been able to get past the farmers being thrilled Null streamed the footage of the murders in the mosques in NZ. They were all “yeah, free speech!”

as @Artichokeleaves says

I may disagree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it'

I think it's also worth mentioning that the Farmers do not have sufficient clout to inspire other media to start to focus on an individual, they start digging after an individual has already been brough to public attention. IIRC they have a thread where they discuss if someone is worthy of a lolcow thread. They discussed our favourite doctor for ages before he got his own thread and by that time he was already fairly well known across SM and MSM.

TullipR (detransitioner) mentioned KF in an interview. He said it’s part of the reason he didn’t get FFS

This is an important point, it actually is a beneficial site for the trans community and prevents a fair few people transitioning I would guess.

I'm not defending KF. I'm not recommending KF. I don't like or agree with everything I've seen on KF. But I think it's very, very important that KF exists. There has to be a place where you.can call

Argh fat fingers!

Where you can call a spade a spade, where you will be expected to provide receipts to prove it's a spade. It matters.