There’s a male in the women’s 200m final today

[NotBadConsidering]

Christine Mboma. Lane 4. Denied a woman a place in the final. May well deny a woman a medal. Will definitely push women down a place regardless.

The awful irony is Mboma needs to win to demonstrate advantage and allow World Athletics to bring in a ban, but doing so will deny a woman success today 😡.

Semenya fathered just children, so no, no women tick that box.

Yes, I understand that. But it's not true to say that anyone who has a wife and children must be male. The original post didn't mention the word "fathered".

Afaik, that player is a transwoman, not somebody with a DSD.

I did notice in the heats yesterday. Mboma's gait was a male running style. Google filled in the blanks for me.

No, it is likely that their external genitals look more female than male, so they were registered as female. In a country with better health care facilities further investigations would have been done which would have established the truth about internal testes, lack of internal female organs etc, and a genetic test would also establish the presence of Y chromosomes, only present in males. Additionally investigations at puberty when the lack of periods and no breast tissue development were apparent would also have shown DSD indicators.

But by then I expect the national athletic scouts were already sniffing around this young athlete who, while not meeting criteria to be a fast enough male athlete was certainly fast enough to win races, medals, sponsorship and national kudos by running as a female.

"She’s not a man, or a trans woman. She was born a woman and identifies as a woman. She just has a DSD (disorder of sex development) which gives her unusually high testosterone levels for a biological female.
I take your point that people born as biological men should not be competing in women’s sports and agree with it. I think this case is a bit more of a grey area however. Similar to Caster Semenya’s case."

Please do your research before you post on something you clearly don't know about or are repeating from another website.
DSDs are SEX SPECIFIC.
That means you will never get a woman with Klinefelters, or a woman with 5ARD.
Caster Semenya has 5ARD, is a chromosomal and biological male. they went through a male puberty.

DSDs in fact, PROVE that sex is binary.
Something has gone wrong along the developmental pathway, but they have not gone onto a DIFFERENT pathway. They are still either male or female.
There is so much misinformation about this online.
They are NOT woman "with unusually high testosterone".
They are MALES.

CAIS is a different DSD where there is NO male puberty or virulisation, because they are unable to respond to any amount of testosterone, even when given exogenous synthetic testosterone. That is why CAIS sufferers are more often than not raised as and live as female (to all intents and purposes they are typical females) and that is the ONLY case I can see where they would have a case for female inclusion. I have MASSIVE sympathy for people with this condition.
That's a whole other thread!

Anyway.
DSDs are SEX SPECIFIC.
And don't believe everything you read, especially if you are repeating it from a TRA forum.

If people race according to their biological sex , what would be the need for transgender races?

Of course it would make a difference to the second and third rate male athletes who like winning womens races rather than coming last in races against elite male athletes, but let’s face it, most men would fail pretty spectacularly racing against elite male athletes, just as most women would fail pretty spectacularly racing against elite female athletes. The difference is that the vast majority of human beings accept our limitations and don’t try to win by stealth and cheating. But for some reason trans athletes think they should be allowed to play by different rules.

Do you have a link to explain hiw/why she isn’t female? Christine Mboma is a woman as far as I can see? With high testosterone levels. I myself have high testosterone levels… I’ve had children naturally and I am a woman.

Does she have a penis?

It's been explained upthread many times.

She is a man, with a disorder of sexual development, resulting at best in confusion in the home country or at worst, in exploitation by people who knew full well her medical history and decided to chance her in the women's categories anyway. Pretty sure this will be the last commonwealth games this will be allowed.

@IvorCutler

This person has XY chromosomes.
They have a DSD (what used to be called "intersex" - DSD stands for Disorder of Sexual Development.)
They are still male as they have a Y chromosome.

DSDs are sex specific, which means that there are DSDs specific to males, and DSDs specific to females.
There is no third sex, which is why "intersex" is being phased out of the literature. You cannot "hover" between the sexes either. You are either male or female (regardless of what DSD you have).
Testosterone is not what make you male or female. Your chromosomes and gamete production does that.
I have PCOS and high testosterone - I am still female because I have XX chromosomes.

You are a woman. You have XX chromosomes (you have had children so I don't have to test your chromosomes).

This person we are talking about is an XY male.

It’ll be the testes causing the issue here. If you have testes, then irrespective of how pretty a dress you wear or how good your head-tilt is, you’re male.

What does that have to do with anything?

Are there any of you lot who actually understand what sex is?

That's the only saving grace. They are a laughing stock and not taken seriously. No man or womsn I know who watches this thinks anything other than a man is cheating at sport.

Mboma is a man with genitals which didn't develop properly.

Scouts scour local competition to identify kids like Mboma. There was a great thread on here about Semenya a couple of months' back which was really informative.

The only way to do this is to ban all men from all women's competition and determine sex by a cheek swab which is what used to happen until the people who were pushing DSDs athletes objected.

Well, the poor lady who missed out on a place in the final is definitely a female woman athlete.

Then you have a womb, a vagina and working ovaries. You developed breasts at puberty and have had menstrual periods. You also have XX chromosomes in every single cell of your body. Only women have XX chromosomes. You are a woman with higher than average testosterone levels which could disrupt your menstrual cycle but has not prevented pregnancy.

Christine Mboba doesn’t have any of those female body parts, Christine Mboba has internalised testicles and (probably) an indeterminate penis. Christine Mboba has a Y chromosome in every single cell of their body. Y chromosomes only occur in men. Christine Mboba has been through a form of male puberty as a result of their internalised testes flooding their body with testosterone, this has led to irreversible body changes such as increased muscle size and strength, increased heart and lung capacity, increased strength. Their body still produces testosterone. Christine Mboba is a man both genetically and physically although their physical male sexual organs are probably not conventional.

Thank you

Are your testosterone levels above the 99 percentile of 5nm? (I think that it around the 99th).

Or does your testosterone overlap the male healthy minimum?

@IvorCutler ... you state that you have high testosterone levels.. would you be comfortable sharing what your level is?

The court of arbitration of sport's deliberation on this is really worth reading. If you want to PM me with your email address I can send it to you. Mboma is subject to these regulations

I say this because there is the constant messaging that these athletes are females with ‘high testosterone’. But the reality is their testosterone is likely nowhere near a maximum female level (unless the female has life threatening tumors or something similarly very serious with their health).

I am actually not asking for your testosterone levels, just making a point.

Strange.. lost half of my post.

Mboma is subject to these regulations which is a matter of public record. Details of her genitalia are not.

On at 21.44pm btw