There’s a male in the women’s 200m final today

[NotBadConsidering]

Christine Mboma. Lane 4. Denied a woman a place in the final. May well deny a woman a medal. Will definitely push women down a place regardless.

The awful irony is Mboma needs to win to demonstrate advantage and allow World Athletics to bring in a ban, but doing so will deny a woman success today 😡.

[TheBiologyStupid]

@Clymene

I meant it was sad he wasn't allowed to continue his skiing career as a man.

Have you watched the video?

Yes, truly sad - he should have been allowed to compete as a male and was probably good enough by the sound of it. His case illustrates what real prejudice and not being able to compete looks like.

[gatehouseoffleet]

@AlecTrevelyan006

formatting went a bit odd there...

... anyway, it is a matter of public record that Niyonsaba is DSD

I guess the only thing you can say is that having a male pace-maker led to a lot of seasons bests and personal bests in that race - the times are very quick.

Of course Niyonsaba took the biggest amount of prize money though.

This is on World Athletics to sort out and fast.

[BellaAmorosa]

Governing bodies of women's sports, having done the hard work of setting up the sports and making them sustainable, should never have handed over control to men. However competent, enthusiastic or well-meaning.

[jgw1]

@SudocremOnEverything

And there are plenty of African girls without these specific DSDs who are being systematically disadvantaged as a result. It’s unfair and exploitative to all the athletes.

Elite sport mostly is unfair and exploitative, this is just a particularly obvious and perhaps extreme example of it.
Its about making money and making middle aged (mostly) men who run federations and enjoy hobnobbing at events and travelling the world one expenses feel good.

[SudocremOnEverything]

@Truthlikeness

"What they should be doing is asking why poor black African athletes only find out they have a DSD when they enter elite competition and are screened."

It does much seems to be the case that they are actually sought out by certain athletic federations who prioritise winning over fairness for female athletes. I think their screening works just fine, they're just not using it in the way we would.

And there are plenty of African girls without these specific DSDs who are being systematically disadvantaged as a result. It’s unfair and exploitative to all the athletes.

[Clymene]

@Truthlikeness

Talented sportspeople have to stop competing all the time - through lack of money or access to resources, injury, age or - in the case of many women - motherhood. Is it really such a massive tragedy that some people have to stop because they've ended up with an unfair advantage? We need to get some perspective and stop all the hand wringing (not aimed at you @Clymene , rather the press).

I meant it was sad he wasn't allowed to continue his skiing career as a man.

Have you watched the video?

[jgw1]

@Truthlikeness

"What they should be doing is asking why poor black African athletes only find out they have a DSD when they enter elite competition and are screened."

It does much seems to be the case that they are actually sought out by certain athletic federations who prioritise winning over fairness for female athletes. I think their screening works just fine, they're just not using it in the way we would.

I am sure that you are well aware that in the UK and many other countries there are plenty of programmes that go out their to scout out athletes who would be best suited to their sports.
Now in the UK they are not specifically looking for DSD athletes as far as I know, but the they test 1000s, train 100s and occasionally they win medals.
As for para sport and the lengths many countries go to to find the athletes that just fit into a category, so that they have the most possible advantage for that category...

[Truthlikeness]

"What they should be doing is asking why poor black African athletes only find out they have a DSD when they enter elite competition and are screened."

It does much seems to be the case that they are actually sought out by certain athletic federations who prioritise winning over fairness for female athletes. I think their screening works just fine, they're just not using it in the way we would.

[Truthlikeness]

Talented sportspeople have to stop competing all the time - through lack of money or access to resources, injury, age or - in the case of many women - motherhood. Is it really such a massive tragedy that some people have to stop because they've ended up with an unfair advantage? We need to get some perspective and stop all the hand wringing (not aimed at you @Clymene , rather the press).

[Clymene]

I had never heard of Erik before. That's really sad. He's a beautiful skier.

[NotBadConsidering]

It’s the ridiculous irony of the situation: in order for Niyonsaba to be banned from the 3000m or 5000m there has to be evidence of advantage to allow World Athletics to act. Women have to lose out now in order for women to not lose out in the future.

Coe has indicated he’s going to sort it out once and for all, but it can’t happen until the end of this season, hence we have the ridiculous situation of seeing males win money, medals and titles at the expense of women and they just have to put up with it. It’s outrageous.

[BoreOfWhabylon]

The Youtube link is a short(around 15 mins) film about him.

He seems like a lovely man.

[Helleofabore]

Erik is one of the athletes I was thinking of.

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Consider Erik/Erika Schinegger, who tried to give his Olympic gold medal back when he discovered he was not the woman he'd always thought he was
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Schinegger

[Truthlikeness]

@RoobarbandCustud

Christina Mbola, Caster Semenya and Beatrice Masilingi were all observed and recorded female at birth and have grown up as girls, I assume because they have female external genitalia. They had no idea they had XY chromosomes until they became athletes. They are not transwomen. I am really uncomfortable about further stigmatising people who have a diagnosis of DSD by insisting they take drugs to reduce testosterone in order to compete in the sex class they have in good faith believed themselves to be all their lives.

I think many of us agree they shouldn't have to take testosterone as they shouldn't be allowed to run in the female category under any circumstances. Many of them have known they are male for a long time (quite possibly since puberty as those three athletes have a DSD which means they experience an almost normal male puberty) and yet they continue to run in the wrong sex class.

[Helleofabore]

Maybe read the thread.

I am really uncomfortable about further stigmatising people who have a diagnosis of DSD by insisting they take drugs to reduce testosterone in order to compete in the sex class they have in good faith believed themselves to be all their lives.

I think it is naive to think that anyone who has read about these athletes, the testing they have been through, thinks that they thought they were still females when they started puberty, were scouted by particular athletics scouts and had to start doing a battery of tests. Semenya seemed to have been going to school as a boy for most of their life as an example.

They are male. They know they are male. They are adults and have choices to make.

Why do you believe people with differences of sex development are unable to make ethical decisions knowing they have an advantage? I mean, if people around them are not telling them the whole truth, yes there is a case.

But otherwise, there are athletes who found out and started competing as males. Why do these particular athletes not do that, or be excused from making a decision to respect female athletes?

[RoobarbandCustud]

Christina Mbola, Caster Semenya and Beatrice Masilingi were all observed and recorded female at birth and have grown up as girls, I assume because they have female external genitalia. They had no idea they had XY chromosomes until they became athletes. They are not transwomen. I am really uncomfortable about further stigmatising people who have a diagnosis of DSD by insisting they take drugs to reduce testosterone in order to compete in the sex class they have in good faith believed themselves to be all their lives.

[AlecTrevelyan006]

formatting went a bit odd there...

... anyway, it is a matter of public record that Niyonsaba is DSD

[AlecTrevelyan006]

Diamond League - Lausanne 26.08.22
women's 3,00m

1 BDI NIYONSABA Francine 8:26.80 MR
2 USA MONSON Alicia 8:26.81 PB
3 KEN CHEBET Beatrice 8:27.14
4 NED HASSAN Sifan 8:28.28 SB
5 KEN KIPKEMBOI Margaret Chelimo 8:29.05 SB
6 USA CRANNY Elise 8:29.95 PB
7 GBR MUIR Laura 8:30.53 PB
8 KAZ KIPKIRUI Caroline Chepkoech 8:34.65 SB
9 ETH WORKU Fantu 8:35.55 SB
10 ETH FEYSA Hawi 8:38.48 PB
11 AUS HULL Jessica 8:41.52
12 GER KLOSTERHALFEN Konstanze 8:45.36
13 ETH EMBAYE Axumawit 8:45.54
14 USA HENES Elly
...

Diamond league prize money
1st $10,000
2nd $6,000
3rd $3,500
4th $2,000
5th $1,250
6th $1,000
7th $750
8th $500

[Dreikanter]

Historically, there have been white DSD athletes (Mary / Mark Weston) and I have read that Katharine Merry has spoken about white athletes that have quietly retired “for personal reasons” but I haven’t tracked these down.

[xalo]

Here is Getachew depriving a woman of victory in the Monaco Diamond League.
So so sick of this.

[Truthlikeness]

It must be so incredibly demoralising at the moment to be a female elite athlete