There’s a male in the women’s 200m final today

[NotBadConsidering]

Christine Mboma. Lane 4. Denied a woman a place in the final. May well deny a woman a medal. Will definitely push women down a place regardless.

The awful irony is Mboma needs to win to demonstrate advantage and allow World Athletics to bring in a ban, but doing so will deny a woman success today 😡.

For pps, I have no idea what my testosterone levels are, I was told they were high after fertility tests when ttc my first (10 years ago).

It's disgraceful that the sporting authorities have left this go on for so long and danced around the issue so ridiculously. Women's sports are not for men.

I know the reasons why this doesnt happen have been discussed at length, but the female competitors should refuse to compete. Nothing would solve this more quickly.

Ok.. thanks. they may be 'high' for a female. But you will most likely be nowhere near what these athletes produce. There is a really good graph around that shows that it is rare for males to have anything like what is considered 'high' in females.

The top range as I mentioned was around 5 nmols. That is what these athletes have refused to drop theirs to if I remember correctly or they could compete in some events. That gives you an indication of how very misleading all this discussion about 'females with high testosterone' actually is.

World Athletics rules stipulate that women competing in races between the 400m and 1500m must have testosterone levels below five nanomoles per litre.

www.smh.com.au/sport/athletics/what-are-the-rules-for-athletes-with-differences-in-sexual-development-at-the-olympics-20210701-p585y6.html

If I find the graph, I will post it.

Another quote from the article

World Athletics revised its policy after it could only establish an association between performance and testosterone levels in events from 400m to 800m (1500 was added because it was deemed similar to 800.) Hence, DSD athletes can race the 200m.

I’d like to know why it is that, during the Olympics, I clearly recall seeing Michael Johnson et al discussing Mboma’s DSD status in some detail. It was mentioned repeatedly and carefully explained.

I’m watching the Commonwealth Games a lot and afaik not one single reference has been made to it. Why not? When, if anything, the issue has become much more a matter of current discussion and importance?

@Zeugma yes no mention by any of the pundits. Pathetic BBC

This is from a PCOS advocate on twitter.

PCOS raises female testosterone to up to 5.5 nmol/L (and above 4 can cause serious issues).
5-ARD raised Caster's testosterone to 21 nmol/L.

twitter.com/NathanielHart72/status/1550916276490477568?s=20&t=E8muLvV5kUEpbPeemz8zwQ

twitter.com/seaningle/status/1537480540068225031?s=20&t=E8muLvV5kUEpbPeemz8zwQ

Sean Ingle (Guardian sports journalist) mentioned this

The latest scientific publications clearly demonstrate that the return of markers of endurance capacity to "female level" occurs within six to eight months under low blood testosterone, while the awaited adaptations in muscle mass and muscle strength/power take much longer (two years minimum according to a recent study). Given the important role played by muscle strength and power in cycling performance, the UCI has decided to increase the transition period on low testosterone from 12 to 24 months. In addition, the UCI has decided to lower the maximum permitted plasma testosterone level (currently 5 mol/L) to 2.5 mol/L. This value corresponds to the maximum testosterone level found in
99.99% of the female population.

Just for people to understand how very wrong this 'female/woman with high testosterone' crap actually is.

It is not correct at all. It is MISINFORMATION.

And it spreads because media has to report it in this way if they are subject to the regulations.

If you ever read that phrase again, go and look further.

I have the graph. It is possible I have high testosterone for a female adult human.

It is inconceivable that I could have male levels naturally.

Thanks Purgatory. That is the one

This one?

Clearly some people have read up more on this than I, but if this person was born intersex and was brought up as a female, in what sounds like pretty difficult circumstances, what do posters expect them to do? Genuine question. Do you think they should not have pursued a career in sport?

They are only an elite sportsperson because they are a male competing in the female class, so yes, of course they should not be there.

My husband is at about world record pace for female rowing, but was only a mediocre college rower in the (correct) male class.

Should he be allowed to compete as a woman too? He’s as fast as the fastest woman ever, should he be denied an Olympic place?

I agree.

Where would they actually belong @StillHappy?

In the event someone genuinely did not know, he should have retired from competing in the female category once he was informed. And had a go at qualifying for one of the distances in the male athletics category.

We don’t necessarily know that these DSD athletes were brought up “female”. Semenya seems to have followed a more masculine path.

www.newindianexpress.com/sport/2009/aug/20/why-caster-wore-male-uniform-at-school-78998.amp

Pursue a career in sport?

Absolutely, but in the appropriate sex category.

I really feel strongly about this being different to trans women in sport. This identity is all Mboma has ever known. It’s not been a calculated ‘choice’ to excel in sport.

Once they understand they are male, I would expect them to either compete as a male OR if there is any disability involved with their difference of sex development work with authorities to establish their own category.

Absolving them of making an informed decision by saying ‘it is difficult’ or ‘it is complicated’ when the current science shows that it is not, is taking away their responsibility to choose to do the right thing.

Five years ago, it may have been a different story. But there is enough data now that these athletes can responsibly make a mature decision to respect females. Or do you feel they don’t have that choice for some reason?

And Mboma had known they were male for some time now.

Agreed. Though it depends if it is a male dsd or a female dsd?

If it is a male DSD, she is cheating.

Genuine question, if someone told you you were male after a blood test, after having lived your life up until now as a female what would you do? Would you change occupation, partner, hobbies etc? Or would you continue as you are?

But Mboma, Semenya, Masilingi, Senyi, Imali, Wambui et al will have known from
puberty that they weren’t female.

Either they have have been exploited by unscrupulous scouts / coaches / agents or they have been complicit in exploiting women’s sport. Or both. They know they’re not female and yet choose to compete in wonen’s events.

The kind of money on offer in events like the Diamond League must be quite the temptation.

But they’re still not female and have no place in women’s sport.

"This identity is all Mboma has ever known. It’s not been a calculated ‘choice’ to excel in sport."

Not a calculated move perhaps on Mboma's part but definitely calculated by the Namibian Athletic Association who would have been only too aware of Mboma's status long before they hit the international stage.

Unless they are prepared to run as a man, ie according to their sex , then yes, find another career. Sport is about fair play on the field or track , or in the pool .

So heavyweight boxers don’t get in the ring with flyweights. Junior athletes don’t race against adults. Para athletes race within specific categories. women compete against women, men compete against men. There would be no point in sport , competition, records, etc if you knew when you put your feet in the starting blocks that the person next to you was bound to win (unless they fell over) because of an insurmountable advantage such as them having been through male puberty when you haven’t.

Having a career in sport is not a right, other careers are available, and most sports can be enjoyed at an amateur level if it is truly a passion. It doesn’t sound kind, it possibly doesn’t sound fair on a personal level, but then neither is destroying women’s sports for all time by setting impossible records and destroying the possibility of success by pandering to either a country’s or an individual’s unreasonable quest for glory.