Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

It's not really drivel though it is the law

There is no law which gives a positive right for these male people to use spaces set aside for women and girls. These are mixed sex spaces and they should make it clear so that women have a choice to avoid them before their privacy and dignity is violated, or they should make use of the Equality Act single sex exemptions in the way they were intended, to provide women with privacy and dignity and to keep us safe when we are vulnerable.

I don't think the lesbian analogy is a fair one even if it's based on supposed sexual attraction. They are not a threat to other women like men are and have been in situations where they have changed around women all their lives so it's far different than a man being in a female change room. The same dynamics just don't apply.

I think you’re being precious

you have right to private space to change which your mum has

it’s been years since I went any pool or waterpark which wasn’t just one room with cubicals

they shouldn’t be changing in the open space unless it’s strictly womens only and signed as such? Is it?

Yes it did. So my mum and some of her friends were getting ready for the class (they weren't naked as they wear their costumes under their clothes before the class) and this person came in from the pool where they had been swimming, put their swim hat in a locker and returned to the pool. Why they felt the need to do that, I don't know.

This isn't the first time they have been in the changing room either. The last time my mum came across them, they emerged from a cubicle wearing a towel and went into a shower.

@Watapalava - for the avoidance of doubt, these are the women's changing rooms. There is one large central space where most women get changed, and 4 cubicles. Some of the women, who had previously changed in the central space, are now changing in a cubicle because they are anxious about encountering this male bodied person in what is supposed to be a single sex space.

It's not really that I don't understand your perspective on that, it's more that I'm so aghast at your posts asserting that this person must be a sexual predator that it did admittedly preoccupy me.

I do think that is one of the problems with transphobia - it discredits the legitimate concerns of women when those concerns do have a right to exist.

We have to put pressure on service providers to respect women. It's unacceptable. Only they can choose whether to exclude males from most female spaces, we need to make it equally as much hassle for them to let them in as trans rights activists create when they prioritise women.

There doesn’t have to be a sexual motive for this to be unacceptable. I’m sure lots of men are perfectly nice and respectful, I still don’t want them in the room when I’m taking underwear on and off and drying myself.

@Dreamwhisper

So you think Lia Post was a voyeur? Since she did have an erection in the female changing rooms. Would you wanted her charged with a crime?
nypost.com/2022/01/27/teammates-are-uneasy-changing-in-locker-room-with-trans-upenn-swimmer-lia-thomas/

This is relevant because it's exactly the reason single sex spaces exist - to provide a space where no one needs to worry about a member of the opposite sex being in the presence of naked/semi naked men or women. And you've proven the point that sex is relevant in a single sex space because no woman should need to face any ambivalence on what the intentions of a person in the changing room are. TW getting used to being around women undressing or pervert - it's not on women to figure it out.

@PoolFloat could we just check provision at the sports club at the school. Is there changing rooms for male and female? Each with a limited number of cubicles and a communal area with lockers and room to change, presumably with benches and also toilet cubicles as well.

is there a separate changing room for any other provision? Eg disabled/family or group room?

some sports centres have changing villages where there are just changing cubicles where provision is mixed but it doesn’t sound like that

This isn't the first time they have been in the changing room either. The last time my mum came across them, they emerged from a cubicle wearing a towel and went into a shower

So on one occasion they briefly went in to use a locker and on the other occasion they used the changing room but went to a private cubicle so they were not in the communal area?

It's not really that I don't understand your perspective on that, it's more that I'm so aghast at your posts asserting that this person must be a sexual predator that it did admittedly preoccupy me.

I didn't say that they absolutely must be a sexual predator. Are you completely incapable of comprehending my posts or are you confusing me with other posters?

Absolutely.
Apparently the ladies with a penis don't have to be nice. They can do what they like. Go where they like. Even stand in a changing room and watch young children undress according to another thread.

Yes, there are separate women's changing rooms and men's changing rooms.

There are no family changing rooms.

Like I said - this is a school which rents out its sports facilities when the school isn't using them. This isn't a public swimming pool. It's a private members' club. My mum has been going to these classes for over 10 years. She has never ever seen a male bodied person in the changing room before.

I would definitely complain. I wouldn't want a biological male I'm not married to stripping off in front of me or watching me strip off.

Please help your mum complain. This is absolutely not ok.

What is it about women's right to privacy and single sex spaces you don't understand?

She is biologically male and, for the same reason that other biological males can’t access female only spaces, this person should not be there. There is no place for penises in women’s changing rooms. Ever.

Do I believe that going round with an erection in public spaces is a sexual offence?

I'm 99.9% sure (and hope) that it is.

Am I convinced that the law around this needs to be changed based on that case? No.

@Dreamwhisper have you considered that no one is asking you to change your behaviour and beliefs, but you are asking many women here to do junior that, and then using pejorative terms like ‘transphobic’ when they object

you are happy with mixed sex changing rooms and similar. That’s fine, use them with my blessing (not that I expect you to care!)

I am not happy with mixed sex changing rooms. I accept the evidence that using them would put me at increasing risk of being a victim of voyeurism for example.

why are you asking me to change my behaviour and beliefs?

A female in a state of undress IS vulnerable.

I think I've made my points pretty clearly on your thread already. I think they're pretty simple.

Most WOMEN perfectly understand why older ladies require some personal privacy in the changing room and don't want to be seen undressing by a man.

The transperson's privacy had been catered for in a separate changing area. So they had no need to intrude on the old ladies area , disrespect their privacy.

The first step to convincing society "I'm a woman", has to be , stop thinking and behaving like a male chauvinist .

I feel sorry for her, she just wants to use the changing rooms. She just wants to swim and not feel uncomfortable blah blah blah.

Why so much sympathy on this thread for a man who is choosing to use the womens changing rooms and so little for the right of women to use those spaces and feel comfortable to do so without sharing the space with men. No one born male who identifies as a woman is actually a woman...... no matter how its sugar coated - they are still a man. Most likely still have a penis.

No way would I be happy sharing a womens changing facility with a man and no way would I want my children to do so.

Oh come on, you knew what I meant. A lady in her 80s isn't going to beat someone up for identifying as a female. A bunch of 40 year olds, absolutely might. Maybe you live in an area where people are dignified but hate crime is a massive problem in most of the UK.

///

I would be gobsmacked if this was to happen. I feel I'm safe not googling as the chance is vanishingly small.

As for hate crime committed by this demographic ... again I'm confident this is statistically rare . Although I often give the Scan and Go machine in Asda a few choice words when going about my Wifey Duties.

Why is this relevant? If tomorrow they're comfortable enough to actually start changing with everyone else, and have their penis out - is it suddenly unacceptable? Or if other TW start using it, as it's now precedence, does that mean someone needs to be monitoring changing rooms 24/7 about what they're doing in there?

Surely it's far easier for everyone including TW to have their own facilities and single sex spaces to be exactly that, single sex.

That's not my intention at all, I actually said the exact opposite. I said stand by your beliefs but realise the poster I was referring to was being about as transphobic as you can get. Assuming that someone has a bad, even criminal character because of their sexual orientation or gender identity is the definition of prejudice.

I'm not asking anyone to change anything. But I think if you are going to write stuff like that, you should be aware that other people can and will react.

I haven't at any point demanded anything of anyone. I obviously come from the other side of the argument, but how is me expressing my views demanding other people change theirs? What makes it the case that I am asking for change, but people disagreeing with me in the same manner are not?

Is your question genuine? Or are you asking it rhetorically to victimise yourself in order to make me look unreasonable?