Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

[PoolFloat]

My mum goes to aqua aerobics classes at a sports club in a private school. Recently, a transwoman has joined the class. My mum was told that they use a different changing room to the one next to the pool but today they came out of the pool and put their swimming hat into a locker before returning to the pool to join the class (there is adult free swim beforehand).

The club has a safeguarding policy which states they will: prioritise the safety and well-being of children and adults at risk

I'm not sure if my mum is considered at risk? She is 88 and nearly all the women in the class are in their 70s and 80s.

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area. Now they are reluctant to do so.

My mum has asked me to help her draft a letter from the women in the class saying how uncomfortable they are that this person is in their changing room but doesn't know how to word it.

Can anyone help please?

Right but you do understand that these beliefs are objectively transphobic right?

As in saying all transwomen who live their lives identifying as female do it with the sole person of sexual gratification and on top of that, sexual gratification by abusing women in one way or another?

Stand by your belief, but don't try and pretend it isn't extremely transphobic and is very much discriminatory against transwomen and not in away actually protective of women.

nypost.com/2022/01/27/teammates-are-uneasy-changing-in-locker-room-with-trans-upenn-swimmer-lia-thomas/

This is what I was referring to

This is just emotive language though. It still doesn't change the fact that you have no evidence that this was the case.

Well no, I don't have any "evidence" of anything, I'm just reacting to someone's personal account on a talkboard.

You have failed to understand my point, because totally astonishingly you're focussing only on the feelings of the male present and couldn't give two shits how the elderly women felt.

It's not just about why this male person did it, it's that women felt violated by it. And males who use women's spaces knowing that it makes women uncomfortable and scared are not nice. It's not what decent males do, they respect women's privacy and dignity.

This person had another space to change according to OP. They chose to enter a female only space.

@Dreamwhisper "Because they identify as female so don't want to use the male changing rooms"

What does "identify as female" mean?

Females don't "identify" as females, they just are females by the fact of their role in sexual reproduction of our species.

Perhaps what you mean is they have a fantasy about themselves as not wanting to be a male?

Such men are not and never will be female so you are making a very good argument for the provision of third and separate spaces for such men.

I’m a bit confused. Apologies if it’s already been clarified but did the placing of the hat in a locker happen when the elderly ladies were all getting changed ready for their class? If so, I really feel for those poor ladies who were too intimidated to say anything at the time and are now worried about how to say anything without opening themselves up to the sort of accusations of bigotry so often seen on here.

Dear xxx, I have been attending an aqua aerobics class at your pool, and was assured that the changing rooms were operating as a single sex space, as permitted by the 2010 Equality Act in order to ensure women's safety, privacy and dignity. However, this seems not to have been enforced. Can you please reassure me that the women's changing room is indeed a single-sex space, so that I can use it with confidence and without anxiety moving forward? As you will understand, your exercise class is of enormous value to my health and wellbeing and I am very keen to keep benefiting from it.

But why? Why would they be helpful and accommodating to the op and what do you believe they would do to be helpful and accommodating to the op?

Every day life is not a place where you can demand single sex spaces in all situations precisely because it puts trans people in an impossible position

What utter drivel. Nobody is asking for them to stay on the opposite side of the road from women. But a changing room is precisely the type of areas where women SHOULD expect to have a single sex space. I don't wonder naked down the street and I don't expect to encounter random men in a WOMEN'S changing room.

The OP says there were a lot of elderly women in the class, this generation were not brought up to expose their naked bodies in front of other women, let alone strange men. I can only imagine my mother's horror and distress if this happened to her.

Quite frankly if there weren't so many mealy mouthed apologists making excuses for men who are determined to take away women's rights to single sex spaces then this wouldn't be happening. Because lets face it a lot of these are chancers who are emboldened by idiots hell bent on minimising the risks of removing women's safe spaces. It absolutely beggars belief that almost 100 years after women in the UK were given the vote we are going to have to fight for our rights again.

@Dreamwhisper
Thank you for the draft by the way!

I can think of another reason a trans woman would want to be in a female changing room. Because they identify as female so don't want to use the male changing rooms

Tough shit. You cannot identify as female - female is a biological sex class and a transwoman is a biological male. No-one can change sex, it's impossible.

i don’t think there’s a right to single sex space

the two pools nearest to me only have mixed changing rooms - all cubicals

your school room has cubicals so it’s not actually a single sex communal space is it? The fact people just go ahead and use the space to change is neither here nor there

cubicals are provided so in theory it could be a mixed provision

Yes an erection or such other signs of active sexual arousal is a pretty good clue that someone is doing something for sexual gratification.
,
I don't "want" sexual gratification proven or disproven in any way. I'm saying if someone is conducting themselves in a manner that is non sexual then you cannot take action against them for committing a sexual offence.

I'm confused that I have to explain this. I feel like if you de-sexed and de-gendered the question and my answer it would be very very obvious.

You cannot, I concede, guarantee that no one is having a sexual thought about you. As a victim of some pretty stalkerish behaviour in my time I know that full well.

But the answer to that is not to assume that anyone doing anything in settings such as, going to the pool or beach, or to the park on a very hot day when people are likely to be scantily clad, is doing so with sexual gratification as a motive.

People would quite rightly point out that such assumptions would be extremely prejudice.

Of course there are situations, as already posted about, where someone may not be overtly getting off on something but may be leery, or acting weird, and not appropriate and most people recognise that. But the OP says nothing about such behaviour. Just a swimmer, putting their hat in a locker.

They are not a woman. They are a man pretending to be a woman.

No one said you can change sex that's why they identify as trans women.

Your personal view might be "tough shit" but it is not the view of everyone.

I think I've made my points though and some replies have been very eye opening.

Yes, some changing rooms are completely mixed. I wouldn't use those spaces. I would only use spaces which were female only, and I don't expect to have male people walking through them. This is clearly a single sex arrangement, as the MTF trans person had already been allotted a separate changing room to use.

It's not really drivel though it is the law, and while you may have no empathy toward people in that situation, frankly who cares? Plenty of people do.

The same as from any other male in a female only changing room. It’s also about privacy and dignity.

I've got no idea what they'd do. They sound like a fancy club though so I'm sure fairly sure they'll offer good customer service.

Maybe 'she' had 'her' penis hanging out. Oh yes sorry, if 'she' has a penis 'she' is not a woman. It's a man!!!

The room isn’t necessarily a ‘changing room’

It’s a room with cubicals that people can change in

that’s not the same as a communal changing room.

op during other classes or free swim is there a separate men and womens room? It has your mum just got used to it being only women on basis of it being mainly women attending aerobics?

"Does her being trans make her more of a threat than any other women? Would a lesbian, for example, be treated with the same assumptions?"

Bullshit.
Of course, by virtue of being MALE, they are more of a threat than any woman.
97% of sexual crimes are committed by men.
Lesbians, however, are female and do not own penises.

As for " speak to her and get to know her" - what a crock of shit. So now, not only are women forced to swallow their reservations, uncomfortable feelings and natural instincts around a male in their personal space in a potential state of undress, we need to "get to know" them.
Be fucking kind.

Also, "frothing at the mouth" ? Is that what you call women rightly concerned about their privacy? Disgusting.

WHY IS IT NOT ENOUGH for you that WOMEN , overwhelmingly, do NOT want to share these spaces with men?
Putting aside the (real) threat men pose to women, putting aside the fact that the poor little TW might be a lovely person, WHY is it not enough that women are entitled to single sex spaces for their privacy, dignity and safety?

His presence ALONE was clearly enough to make women uncomfortable.
WHY IS THAT NOT ENOUGH?

You lost me here. What does empathy have to do with the law exactly?

The law is very clear on who can, and cannot, access single sex spaces. Have you heard about the WiSpa episode?